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fireworks_god
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
#5909607 - 07/28/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: IMO he had big balls and accomplished things not many of us here will equal in regards to the advancement of human evolution in this culture.
The notion of shock value comes to mind. A shock is not a negative thing, it is simply different than the base experience, on a personal, societal, whatever level. Clearly, if the individual or collective is provoked by a shock, then there is much work to be done.
Society reacted to the acidic, probably because society is base. Society changed as a result. We are entering a time in which psychadelics may be discovered for the true role they can play in our lives. I do not think it is surprising to find the media exposure concerning positive mushroom benefits occuring now, especially as "Americans are more pessimistic".
Quote:
The fact that you don't see much value in his work may be because when he did it not that many psychedelic and spiritual doors were open to the average Joe. Now, because of men like him, the doors are open and others have carried the torch further.
Is that how cause and effect works?
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5909616 - 07/28/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think you totally misunderstood my point. you claiming that websites like this would not exist, that is speculation. i never claimed that psychedleics would be used in the exact same way or anything of that sort.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
#5909628 - 07/28/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Websites? Quite possibly. "The Shroomery" - no fucking way, it would not exist. The Shroomery is as we know it to be, and could not have been any other way. This is not speculation, but fact.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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kotik
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5909670 - 07/28/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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whos pissing the farthest right now?
I'd like to humbly add that Columbus had little to do with discovering america.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: kotik]
#5909732 - 07/28/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: whos pissing the farthest right now?
Elaborate.
Quote:
I'd like to humbly add that Columbus had little to do with discovering america.
The Vikings certainly did not colonize America. I never proposed that Columbus was the only one to discover America, either. Not sure exactly what point you are attempting to drive home, but I sincerely hope that it went further than simply implying that the Vikings "discovered" America, or that the migrating Asians "discovered" America.
If you are proposing a view alternate to my point, it happened like this Colombus > Spanish Invasion Of America (as in, the Americas ) > British, French, Portugese, etc. Invasion Of America > Timothy Leary > The Shroomery.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5909797 - 07/28/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Timothy Leary Was A
Thank you for that picture, I was born in the year of the pig..
Guess that makes me one too!
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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RRRR
Rapture Ready
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5910065 - 07/28/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc. Of course, the drug does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key — it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures.
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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Deviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5910350 - 07/28/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Websites? Quite possibly. "The Shroomery" - no fucking way, it would not exist. The Shroomery is as we know it to be, and could not have been any other way. This is not speculation, but fact.
Peace.
so we'd be posting at "planet mushroom" or "shroom world". my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist. if youre just saying that if things didn't happen the way they did then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have, that's obvious. but i dont see why it's relevant.
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Silversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
#5910373 - 07/28/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Deviate said: my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist.
Honestly, I'm not so sure they would. At least, not the way we discuss them here. I really think that Timothy Leary invented psychedelic culture as we know it.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
#5910374 - 07/28/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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What about Ken Kesey?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5910405 - 07/28/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ya, I just thought about him as I finished typing that. I have to wonder whether or not he would have emerged as the counterculture figure he was if it hadn't been for Timothy Leary. The thing about Ken Kesey, though, was he was a bit more reckless. Timothy Leary was advocating responsible drug use and moderation, while Ken Kesey was basically throwing wild acid parties all across the western US.
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Madtowntripper
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
#5910491 - 07/28/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Whoa. Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?
Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out?
Heh.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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DadeMurphy
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
#5910531 - 07/28/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't think Timothy Leary was advocating responsible drug use and moderation..."Turn on, Tune in, Drop Out" was a fairly radical and political statement to young people at that time...Hence the severe cultural backlash against psychedelics.
This is the picture I get of Leary from reading many books, interviews etc.: Leary was deliberately trying to buck the system, and promoted psychedelics as a panacea. He tended to under- emphasize the dangers or limitations of psychedelics. He was a man bored by his Harvard career, who probably wanted to be famous as a provocateur/revolutionary. He was willing to forgo the rules of the institution he belonged to (and of solid, ethical scientific practice) in order to be the one to 'bring psychedelics to the masses'. In doing this he did a lot of harm to the cause of exploring psychedelics in a controlled, responsible way...a way advocated by some other "psychedelic luminaries" of the time (ie. Huxley - 'the best and the brightest', Hofmann etc).
...There were plenty of other people (artists, scientists, writers, philosophers etc.) interested in exploring the potential of psychedelics before Leary came along. There was also an underground "drug culture" before he came along. It's true that if it weren't for Leary's "democratization" of the psychedelics, a much smaller percent of the population would be "turned on" or aware of psychedelics, but there would certainly still be interest and discussion.
Perhaps the drugs would have continued to be available to researchers, and would be accepted on the basis of their virtues by now in the scientific/medical/political institutions. Instead all research was halted for decades due to massive cultural fear, and the grip of this fear is only now loosening, 40 years later.
If you want to understand the basis of my opinion, check out what the people (Shulgin and others) have to say in "Higher Wisdom: Eminent Elders Explore The Continuing Impact of Psychedelics - by Walsh & Grob", or the take on psychelic history given by Jay Stevens in "Storming Heaven".
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RRRR
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5910540 - 07/28/06 11:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Whoa. Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?
I am 100 percent in favor of the intelligent use of drugs, and 1,000 percent against the thoughtless use of them, whether caffeine or LSD. And drugs are not central to my life. -Timothy Leary
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5910551 - 07/28/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: Whoa. Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?
Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out?
Heh.
What a red herring. That phrase had more to do with his position towards society and expanding consciousness. Timothy Leary was one of the first to emphasize the importance of set and setting, which has become a mantra for responsible drug use. He emphasized that LSD and other psychedelics could have a profoundly positive effect on a person if it was used responsibly. Anything more than a superficial look at his writings will show that he was very serious about using drugs in the proper context.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
#5913103 - 07/29/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Deviate said: [so we'd be posting at "planet mushroom" or "shroom world".
Speculation. You cannot propose to know what will happen when one removes a signifigant catalyst out of the equation. For all we know, without Timothy Leary, psychadelics might have been studied a bit and forgotten about. Who knows?
Quote:
my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist.
My point is that you don't know that, nor could you. The existance of this avenue of discussion regarding psychoactive compounds results from that which has preceded it. It would not be what it is if a social awareness and practice of consuming psychoactive compounds were not around. When one realizes the signifigant role Timothy Leary has had in promoting social awareness of psychadelics and their subsequent consumption, it makes it such that one cannot assuredly proclaim such a place would exist without Timothy Leary.
Quote:
if youre just saying that if things didn't happen the way they did then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have, that's obvious.
If it were that obvious, then you would not deny the role that Timothy Leary has had in the history of psychadelics. You propose that it would have all happened anyways, without him, but it happened with him, partially as a result of him. He played a role, thus, it "all wouldn't have happened without him". If it were that obvious, one would recognize his role.
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but i dont see why it's relevant.
Because you assert that cause and effect is obvious but deny the cause that has had an effect.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
#5913143 - 07/29/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Icelander said: I decided to be a fan of Leary even though he wasn't a perfect human. The Politics of Ecstasy was a powerful book when I first read it. Between him and Robert Anton Wilson among others, we got the information we desperately needed back in the 60s and 70s. IMO he had big balls and accomplished things not many of us here will equal in regards to the advancement of human evolution in this culture.
The fact that you don't see much value in his work may be because when he did it not that many psychedelic and spiritual doors were open to the average Joe. Now, because of men like him, the doors are open and others have carried the torch further.
And what are his "sins" that you don't consider him a perfect human?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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fireworks_god
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5913157 - 07/29/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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No one is considered to be a perfect human. Perfection cannot be attained.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Posts: 23,576
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5913158 - 07/29/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: No one is considered to be a perfect human.
/points to your avatar.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
#5913171 - 07/29/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The figure represented in the avatar isn't a human, it is an avatar.
I would have normally referred to it as an archetype, but "avatar" seemed more fitting, given the circumstances....
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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