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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging?
    #5899705 - 07/25/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There are supposedly two movies about the life of Timothy Leary under production and there also is a new biography of Timothy Leary by Robert Greenfield (Published June 1, 2006). Is there a renewed interest in this man, and consequentially in LSD, or is this just a coincidence?

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OfflineFractalated
There's no onehome up there...

Registered: 07/22/06
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5899861 - 07/25/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I do think there is a growing interest in psychedelics and consequently, about the first waves of the psychedelic movement in the 60s.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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OfflineNomad
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5900897 - 07/26/06 02:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Psychedelics reemerge because they cannot be consumed; they are essentially opposed to consumerism. As the western world tumbles into the abyss, everything becomes integrated into the paradigm of consumption, including mysticism (for we do not practice eastern religion, we consume it), and love (flat, superficial relationships; serial monogamy - consuming each other).

But you cannot consume a five gram trip. As everything becomes standardized, packaged and put into supermarket shelves, psychedelics become the one thing different in quality. In a world turning gray, interest in the rainbow will rise.

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Offlinebobjones
...
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5901320 - 07/26/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i think salvia might be helping as well. i've been really suprised at the number, and diversity of people that i've heard smoking it.


--------------------
"Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read"
-Groucho Marx

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: bobjones]
    #5901334 - 07/26/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i'm not sure if salvia is a good representative of the peace/love vibes associated with psychedelics.

but i bet it is rousing a lot of interest.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: leery11]
    #5901439 - 07/26/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
i'm not sure if salvia is a good representative of the peace/love vibes associated with psychedelics.




In my experience, there are no "peace/love vibes" associated with psychedelics.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5901546 - 07/26/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Is there a renewed interest in this man, and consequentially in LSD, or is this just a coincidence?



Perhaps if there isn't already, these things will spark new interest in psychedelics.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5901660 - 07/26/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

leery11 said:
i'm not sure if salvia is a good representative of the peace/love vibes associated with psychedelics.




In my experience, there are no "peace/love vibes" associated with psychedelics.



how do they make you feel?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: leery11]
    #5901680 - 07/26/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

leery11 said:
i'm not sure if salvia is a good representative of the peace/love vibes associated with psychedelics.




In my experience, there are no "peace/love vibes" associated with psychedelics.



how do they make you feel?



If his avatar is any indication, I don't want to know.


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OfflineWasteland
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: leery11]
    #5901683 - 07/26/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, speaking as one of them, I can tell you that a decent amount of geeks out there are gaining interest in psychadelics and the world of drugs altogether.

A perfect example:
Psychonauts is a very popular video game, the origin of the word psychonaut is buried in drug testing and characters very similiar to the late Dr. Leary


--------------------
The Mad Shroomer said:
People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver. :frown:

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Wasteland]
    #5901928 - 07/26/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Timothy Leary Was A


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5906174 - 07/27/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yup, i would have to agree with you. from wikipedia:

Leary cooperated with the FBI's investigation of the Weathermen and radical attorneys, and soon the underground became aware that he had become an informant, implicating friends and helpers in exchange for a reduced sentence. Leary would later claim no one was ever prosecuted based on any information he gave to the FBI (as noted in an Open Letter from the Friends of Timothy Leary:


The Weather Underground, the radical left organization responsible for his escape, was not impacted by his testimony. Histories written about the Weather Underground usually mention the Leary chapter in terms of the escape for which they proudly took credit. Leary sent information to the Weather Underground through a sympathetic prisoner that he was considering making a deal with the FBI and waited for their approval. The return message was "we understand."


While this claim evidently discounts the documented involvement of Leary in the set-up of Brotherhood of Eternal Love attorney George Chula and ignores his repeated attempts to set-up his fugitive ex-wife Rosemary, it should also be pointed out that Leary's affidavits and archives provided the government with a significant amount of intelligence on the American left and drug scenes and the lack of convictions directly based on Leary's testimony does not mean that his information did not strengthen the government's hand considerably.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5908641 - 07/28/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't expect anyone to be a martyr for a radical, left organization. If it was not for Timothy Leary, it is fact that you would not be utilizing this website right now, because it would not exist. Timothy Leary's role in the history of psychadelics is quite considerable, and no doubt, if it were not for him, situations would not have transpired to the point that, here we are. :shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5909408 - 07/28/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

a fact? baseless statements are not facts. i mean that's like saying if columbus hadn't discovered america, europe would still be ignorant to its existence. timothy leary did not invent psychedelics, nor was he the only person writing about them at the time. there would still be drug use and drug websites without him. since today's drug users are willing to try just about anything, i find it difficult to fathom them somehow overlooking the entire class of psychedelics.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909449 - 07/28/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

by today's standards Leary would be a major terrorist.

He dealt with Weather Underground, Black Panthers, Escaped from jail, and even fled to Afghanistan. AND he worked for the CIA. Doesn't get any closer to Bin Laden than that... heh.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909474 - 07/28/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It is a fact that Leary did more than anyone to popularize psychedelics. While we can't speak in certainties regarding "what if" scenarios, I find it highly unlikely that LSD would have become so popular and well-known without Timothy Leary. As that wikipedia entry admits, no convictions resulted from his information, so I hardly find cause in such actions to reject his vast contributions.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5909502 - 07/28/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

but you can also argue that his "contributions" were largely responsible for psychedelics being made illegal when they were. i used to be a big fan of his and i read many of books but i never felt like they were that good (with the exception of the psychedelic experience. i guess i just don't see that much value in what he did.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909537 - 07/28/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I decided to be a fan of Leary even though he wasn't a perfect human. The Politics of Ecstasy was a powerful book when I first read it. Between him and Robert Anton Wilson among others, we got the information we desperately needed back in the 60s and 70s. IMO he had big balls and accomplished things not many of us here will equal in regards to the advancement of human evolution in this culture.

The fact that you don't see much value in his work may be because when he did it not that many psychedelic and spiritual doors were open to the average Joe. Now, because of men like him, the doors are open and others have carried the torch further.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909589 - 07/28/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
a fact? baseless statements are not facts.




You may dismiss a statement as you apparently do not understand the truth in it, but that does not mean the statement is baseless. It has a solid foundation - cause and effect. You know, the notion that every action has far-reaching consequences. Timothy Leary has obviously played a crucial role in the history of psychadelics, specifically regarding society's awareness of psychadelics and their usage of psychadelics, and this cannot be denied. Thus, anything that results after that point in regards to psychadelics has a sensitive dependance on the role of Timothy Leary.

Timothy Leary - awareness and social practice of using psychadelics - Shroomery. Almost seems to flow seamlessly, eh? To think that, if it were not for Timothy Leary, we would still be participating as this Shroomery, would deny the chain of events that have occured.

Firstly, we would not be having this conversation. Reality exists in this present state as the result of that which has preceded it. Considering that we all here know of Timothy Leary and realize his relationship with psychadelics, that would suggest that, without Timothy Leary, psychadelics would still be used exactly as they are right now, by the exact same people, and we would all gather and discuss them as this exact forum, with the exact same conversations and interactions? Excuse me while I proclaim that it simply could not be so.

It is interesting that you are willing to state that his role in the illegalization of psychadelics is clear, but will not acknowledge his crucial role in the proliferation of psychadelics and its culture. I'm not sure if this is because you interpret reality from a perspective clouded in negativity, or if you simply have a grudge agansit Timothy Leary. :shrug:

Quote:


i mean that's like saying if columbus hadn't discovered america, europe would still be ignorant to its existence.




Incorrect. Invalid analogy. While it should remain clear that, perhaps if Colombus' ships had sunk on their first voyage, denizens of Europe would still eventually discover America (as they already had before Colombus). The important understanding that needs to be emphasized is that, if events had not occured in exactly the same manner as they had, this present moment would be incredibly different.

It is almost as if, you do not care for certain effects of the man's actions, so you choose to deny the positive effects he has had, as they relate to psychadelics and to those who use them. Well, first and foremost, there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. Second off, such speculation of how it could have happened anyways without Timothy Leary are an idle activity of an imaginative mind, as it is crystal clear that Timothy Leary did play a signifigant role in the advancement of psychadelics.

Quote:


timothy leary did not invent psychedelics, nor was he the only person writing about them at the time.




And yet he is the one who played the role of proliferating usage and awareness of psychadelics. I wonder what exactly was the specific factor concerning himself and his behavior that allowed him to accomplish this? :smirk:

Quote:


  there would still be drug use and drug websites without him.




Speculation at most, and a statement that makes one question if it would have been on the same scale, to the same degree, with the exact effect... Who knows? No one does, because reality unfolded itself as it did. Tough shit, I know, but, as I have definitely asserted earlier, here we are, the direct result of behavior exhibited by Timothy Leary. :shocked:

Quote:


since today's drug users are willing to try just about anything, i find it difficult to fathom them somehow overlooking the entire class of psychedelics.




There wouldn't be "today's drug users" without "yesterday's drug users". Now, what role did Timothy Leary play in bringing yesterday's drug users to do these specific drugs? :doh:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909599 - 07/28/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
but you can also argue that his "contributions" were largely responsible for psychedelics being made illegal when they were.




Almost as though he were the one that illegalized them, right? :rolleyes:

Quote:


i guess i just don't see that much value in what he did.




Yeah, because you seem to lack an understanding of reality and how it occurs.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
    #5909607 - 07/28/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
IMO he had big balls and accomplished things not many of us here will equal in regards to the advancement of human evolution in this culture.




The notion of shock value comes to mind. A shock is not a negative thing, it is simply different than the base experience, on a personal, societal, whatever level. Clearly, if the individual or collective is provoked by a shock, then there is much work to be done. :lol:

Society reacted to the acidic, probably because society is base. :shocked: Society changed as a result. We are entering a time in which psychadelics may be discovered for the true role they can play in our lives. I do not think it is surprising to find the media exposure concerning positive mushroom benefits occuring now, especially as "Americans are more pessimistic".

Quote:


The fact that you don't see much value in his work may be because when he did it not that many psychedelic and spiritual doors were open to the average Joe. Now, because of men like him, the doors are open and others have carried the torch further.




Is that how cause and effect works?  :eek:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5909616 - 07/28/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i think you totally misunderstood my point. you claiming that websites like this would not exist, that is speculation. i never claimed that psychedleics would be used in the exact same way or anything of that sort.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5909628 - 07/28/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Websites? Quite possibly. "The Shroomery" - no fucking way, it would not exist. The Shroomery is as we know it to be, and could not have been any other way. This is not speculation, but fact.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5909670 - 07/28/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

whos pissing the farthest right now?

I'd like to humbly add that Columbus had little to do with discovering america.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: kotik]
    #5909732 - 07/28/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
whos pissing the farthest right now?




Elaborate.

Quote:


I'd like to humbly add that Columbus had little to do with discovering america.




The Vikings certainly did not colonize America. I never proposed that Columbus was the only one to discover America, either. Not sure exactly what point you are attempting to drive home, but I sincerely hope that it went further than simply implying that the Vikings "discovered" America, or that the migrating Asians "discovered" America. :wink:

If you are proposing a view alternate to my point, it happened like this Colombus > Spanish Invasion Of America (as in, the Americas :lol:) > British, French, Portugese, etc. Invasion Of America > Timothy Leary > The Shroomery. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5909797 - 07/28/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Timothy Leary Was A




Thank you for that picture, I was born in the year of the pig..

Guess that makes me one too! :piggy:


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Disclaimer!?

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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5910065 - 07/28/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc. Of course, the drug does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key — it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures.
:cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5910350 - 07/28/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Websites? Quite possibly. "The Shroomery" - no fucking way, it would not exist. The Shroomery is as we know it to be, and could not have been any other way. This is not speculation, but fact.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




so we'd be posting at "planet mushroom" or "shroom world". my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist. if youre just saying that if things didn't happen the way they did then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have, that's obvious. but i dont see why it's relevant.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5910373 - 07/28/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist.



Honestly, I'm not so sure they would. At least, not the way we discuss them here. I really think that Timothy Leary invented psychedelic culture as we know it.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5910374 - 07/28/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What about Ken Kesey?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5910405 - 07/28/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Ya, I just thought about him as I finished typing that. I have to wonder whether or not he would have emerged as the counterculture figure he was if it hadn't been for Timothy Leary. The thing about Ken Kesey, though, was he was a bit more reckless. Timothy Leary was advocating responsible drug use and moderation, while Ken Kesey was basically throwing wild acid parties all across the western US.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5910491 - 07/28/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Whoa. Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?

Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out?

Heh.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5910531 - 07/28/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think Timothy Leary was advocating responsible drug use and moderation..."Turn on, Tune in, Drop Out" was a fairly radical and political statement to young people at that time...Hence the severe cultural backlash against psychedelics.

This is the picture I get of Leary from reading many books, interviews etc.: Leary was deliberately trying to buck the system, and promoted psychedelics as a panacea. He tended to under- emphasize the dangers or limitations of psychedelics. He was a man bored by his Harvard career, who probably wanted to be famous as a provocateur/revolutionary. He was willing to forgo the rules of the institution he belonged to (and of solid, ethical scientific practice) in order to be the one to 'bring psychedelics to the masses'. In doing this he did a lot of harm to the cause of exploring psychedelics in a controlled, responsible way...a way advocated by some other "psychedelic luminaries" of the time (ie. Huxley - 'the best and the brightest', Hofmann etc).

...There were plenty of other people (artists, scientists, writers, philosophers etc.) interested in exploring the potential of psychedelics before Leary came along. There was also an underground "drug culture" before he came along. It's true that if it weren't for Leary's "democratization" of the psychedelics, a much smaller percent of the population would be "turned on" or aware of psychedelics, but there would certainly still be interest and discussion.

Perhaps the drugs would have continued to be available to researchers, and would be accepted on the basis of their virtues by now in the scientific/medical/political institutions. Instead all research was halted for decades due to massive cultural fear, and the grip of this fear is only now loosening, 40 years later.

If you want to understand the basis of my opinion, check out what the people (Shulgin and others) have to say in "Higher Wisdom: Eminent Elders Explore The Continuing Impact of Psychedelics - by Walsh & Grob", or the take on psychelic history given by Jay Stevens in "Storming Heaven".


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5910540 - 07/28/06 11:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Whoa.  Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?





I am 100 percent in favor of the intelligent use of drugs, and 1,000 percent against the thoughtless use of them, whether caffeine or LSD. And drugs are not central to my life. -Timothy Leary
:cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5910551 - 07/28/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Whoa.  Tim Leary was advocating responsible drug use?

Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out?

Heh.



What a red herring.  :rolleyes:  That phrase had more to do with his position towards society and expanding consciousness.  Timothy Leary was one of the first to emphasize the importance of set and setting, which has become a mantra for responsible drug use.  He emphasized that LSD and other psychedelics could have a profoundly positive effect on a person if it was used responsibly.  Anything more than a superficial look at his writings will show that he was very serious about using drugs in the proper context.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5913103 - 07/29/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
[so we'd be posting at "planet mushroom" or "shroom world".




Speculation. You cannot propose to know what will happen when one removes a signifigant catalyst out of the equation. For all we know, without Timothy Leary, psychadelics might have been studied a bit and forgotten about. Who knows?

Quote:


my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist.




My point is that you don't know that, nor could you. The existance of this avenue of discussion regarding psychoactive compounds results from that which has preceded it. It would not be what it is if a social awareness and practice of consuming psychoactive compounds were not around. When one realizes the signifigant role Timothy Leary has had in promoting social awareness of psychadelics and their subsequent consumption, it makes it such that one cannot assuredly proclaim such a place would exist without Timothy Leary.

Quote:


if youre just saying that if things didn't happen the way they did then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have, that's obvious.




If it were that obvious, then you would not deny the role that Timothy Leary has had in the history of psychadelics. You propose that it would have all happened anyways, without him, but it happened with him, partially as a result of him. He played a role, thus, it "all wouldn't have happened without him". If it were that obvious, one would recognize his role.

Quote:


but i dont see why it's relevant.




Because you assert that cause and effect is obvious but deny the cause that has had an effect. :lol: :doh:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
    #5913143 - 07/29/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I decided to be a fan of Leary even though he wasn't a perfect human. The Politics of Ecstasy was a powerful book when I first read it. Between him and Robert Anton Wilson among others, we got the information we desperately needed back in the 60s and 70s. IMO he had big balls and accomplished things not many of us here will equal in regards to the advancement of human evolution in this culture.

The fact that you don't see much value in his work may be because when he did it not that many psychedelic and spiritual doors were open to the average Joe. Now, because of men like him, the doors are open and others have carried the torch further.




And what are his "sins" that you don't consider him a perfect human?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913157 - 07/29/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No one is considered to be a perfect human. Perfection cannot be attained.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913158 - 07/29/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
No one is considered to be a perfect human.



/points to your avatar.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5913171 - 07/29/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The figure represented in the avatar isn't a human, it is an avatar. :grin:

I would have normally referred to it as an archetype, but "avatar" seemed more fitting, given the circumstances....

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913213 - 07/29/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
[so we'd be posting at "planet mushroom" or "shroom world".




Speculation. You cannot propose to know what will happen when one removes a signifigant catalyst out of the equation. For all we know, without Timothy Leary, psychadelics might have been studied a bit and forgotten about. Who knows?








my point was that avenues for discussion reguarding psychoactive compounds would still exist.




My point is that you don't know that, nor could you. The existance of this avenue of discussion regarding psychoactive compounds results from that which has preceded it. It would not be what it is if a social awareness and practice of consuming psychoactive compounds were not around. When one realizes the signifigant role Timothy Leary has had in promoting social awareness of psychadelics and their subsequent consumption, it makes it such that one cannot assuredly proclaim such a place would exist without Timothy Leary.

Quote:


if youre just saying that if things didn't happen the way they did then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have, that's obvious.




If it were that obvious, then you would not deny the role that Timothy Leary has had in the history of psychadelics. You propose that it would have all happened anyways, without him, but it happened with him, partially as a result of him. He played a role, thus, it "all wouldn't have happened without him". If it were that obvious, one would recognize his role.

Quote:


but i dont see why it's relevant.




Because you assert that cause and effect is obvious but deny the cause that has had an effect. :lol: :doh:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




i never said "it would have all happened anyway", i said he didn't invent psychedelics. native american indians have been using them for thousands of years. several other westerners have studied them, even before leary. whether leary did more good or bad is a matter of opinion. just because we dont know what would have happened if leary hadnt done what we did, doesn't mean we must all aprove of what he did and become fans of his.

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5913631 - 07/30/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Leary let US KNOW. Sure Indians this and Natives that... but not western mainstream culture.

I wonder, had Leary never existed, would I know psychedelics?

I'm not so sure that I would, or many people here for that matter...  :yinyang:


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HELP!!!!!!!!!

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5913836 - 07/30/06 02:20 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

anyone who took the time to learn about other cultures would. anyone who had any academic interest whatsoever in drugs would.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5914104 - 07/30/06 04:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
anyone who took the time to learn about other cultures would. anyone who had any academic interest whatsoever in drugs would.



And that would leave out millions of people who could potentially benefit from psychedelics. First of all, taking an interest in other cultures doesn't translate into a desire to partake in their customs. You don't see anthropologists going around with big disks in their lips. Second, since psychedelics are so radically different from other types of drugs, I'm not so sure that the type of person who takes an acedemic interest in "drugs" would be the type of person that could benefit most from taking psychedelics. It took a generation of psychedelic gurus to show people the benefits of psychedelics. In the short term, it may have led to them being made illegal, but I suspect that in the long term, humanity may be better off for having had these Prometheus's of the 60's.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5914180 - 07/30/06 05:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


And that would leave out millions of people who could potentially benefit from psychedelics. First of all, taking an interest in other cultures doesn't translate into a desire to partake in their customs. You don't see anthropologists going around with big disks in their lips.




actually, anthropologists are often very interested in partaking of the customs of the cultures they study but that's beside the point. i was saying that people would still know of the existence of psychedelics. and its not like they were restricted to foreign cultures anyway, as was already mentioned ken kesey was introducing them to people as well as the fact that some of the more prominent psychedelic researchers like alexander shulgin were also using and writing about psychedelics before leary.


Quote:

Second, since psychedelics are so radically different from other types of drugs, I'm not so sure that the type of person who takes an acedemic interest in "drugs" would be the type of person that could benefit most from taking psychedelics. It took a generation of psychedelic gurus to show people the benefits of psychedelics. In the short term, it may have led to them being made illegal, but I suspect that in the long term, humanity may be better off for having had these Prometheus's of the 60's.




and you're entitled to that suspicion but you can't expect that everyone should share it with you. there are people involved with psychedelics who think humanity would be better off without the antics of timothy leary.

Edited by Deviate (07/30/06 05:42 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5914215 - 07/30/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
and you're entitled to that suspicion but you can't expect that everyone should share it with you. there are people involved with psychedelics who think humanity would be better off without the antics of timothy leary.



And just what "antics" would these be? Surely you're not talking about him bringing psychedelics to the masses, as you do not condemn Ken Kesey for doing the same. Perhaps you're referring to the fact that he testified before Congress as to why he felt psychedelics should remain legal. Or perhaps you're referring to him going to the Supreme Court and getting the Marijuana Tax Act repealed. Or maybe you mean the Good Friday Experiment, which gave scientific evidence of the capacity for hallucinogens to induce spiritual experiences. As far as I can tell, his "antics" included promoting mind expansion and having the courage to speak his mind about what was going on in the world.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5914223 - 07/30/06 06:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
No one is considered to be a perfect human. Perfection cannot be attained.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Yes it can, because there are all kinds of perfections, each has its own criteria.

If your criteria for a car is that it's old, broken and dirty, and it is, then it's a perfect car

I just wanted to know what does Icelander blaim Leary for. I mean you don't say something like, sure he's not perfect, unless you have something specific on your mind


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Deviate]
    #5914703 - 07/30/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
i never said "it would have all happened anyway", i said he didn't invent psychedelics.




So what? Psychadelics didn't just automatically become known and used as they do right now. Society became aware of them and used them as they did as a result of Timothy Leary.

Quote:


native american indians have been using them for thousands of years. several other westerners have studied them, even before leary.




And yet use on a widespread, societal level only began as Timothy Leary exposed the country to them, as he did. Timothy Leary played an active, crucial role that others did not, a role that could not have been replicated without Timothy Leary.

Quote:


whether leary did more good or bad is a matter of opinion. just because we dont know what would have happened if leary hadnt done what we did, doesn't mean we must all aprove of what he did and become fans of his.




The whole point isn't that dense, so it shouldn't be too difficult to realize. This isn't a matter of judging his works or "becoming fans of him". You specifically denied to acknowledge the signifigant role that Timothy Leary has played in the proliferation of psychadelics, endlessly speculating that, without him, psychadelics would still have reached the same level they exist at now.

Simply recognize that he did play such a role. Reality demonstrates this, and there is no point of deluding onself through speuclation, much akin to such like "If John Wilkes Booth had not shot Abraham Lincoln, someone else would have". It is faulty reasoning that does not reflect reality.

You've cast doubt on the role Timothy Leary has played in advancing understanding, awareness, and usage of psychadelics. I could honestly give a fuck less what you think of him, but you have made invalid statements and I fully intend on exposing this, even as you continue to avoid the point.

So, apparently some remote, indigenous cultures used psychadelics, and a few scholars were aware of them. Then Timothy Leary tried them, began a research project at Harvard that gained a lot of public attention, which ended in controversy, then created a foundation, continued experiments at the Millbrook estate, resulting in several federal raids... then founded a new religion centered around and named after LSD... started touring college campuses with multimedia performances... uttered a famous phrase, developed a model of consciousness, appealed a case agansit him which resulted in the Marijuana Tax Act repealed... ended up in prison, escaped, and fled to Switzerland... etc. etc. etc. etc... Not to mention, of course, all of his creative works, the creative works of others influenced by him, the entire movement and social scene that developed as a result of this single man's actions.... :smirk:

It sounds as though he personally brought acid into the public spotlight throughout his life. This is how it happened, and no amount of speculation of how things would have came to this point anyways can deny this.

Timothy Leary signifigantly benefited the advancement of psychadelics. Fact. End of discussion. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineFospher
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5916491 - 07/30/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel. "



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010001100100001001000101!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Fospher]
    #5916610 - 07/30/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel. "



Not all of us thought that. Tim didn't either IMO. All those "failures" were failures LSD or no. That's always been true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFospher
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
    #5916626 - 07/30/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
All those "failures" were failures LSD or no. That's always been true.




Rephrase that sentence, and what's always been true?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Interest in Timothy Leary reemerging? [Re: Icelander]
    #5916991 - 07/30/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel. "



Not all of us thought that. Tim didn't either IMO. All those "failures" were failures LSD or no. That's always been true.




Right. I never understood why Hunter said this about Leary, of all people. Kesey was the one crashing around, not cautious old Leary. :lol: Aside from all that "create your own religion" noise, he seemed like one of the least spiritually-orient psychedelic advocates of his time. Plus, Leary addressed this point specifically in the fourth chapter of High Priest once he realized LSD wouldn't instantly make a person act a certian way. 

"It destroyed my hopes that the mushroom pill was an automatic love-revelation pill... There seemed to be equal amounts of God and Devil (or whatever you want to call them) within the nervous system. Psychedelic drugs just open the door to the Magic Theatre, and the stages and dramas you encounter depend on what you are looking for, your state of mind when you begin... Psychedelic drugs didn't solve any problems. They just magnified, mythified, clarified to jewel-like sharpness the basic problem of life and evolution... I began to feel the frustration of the guy who invent the wheel at that horrid moment when he real-ized it could be harnessed to any damnable human game..."

It is interesting that people denounce Timothy Leary for cooperating with the FBI, but no one seems to denounce Alex Shulgin for working with the DEA.

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