nicechrisman said:

zappaisgod said:

I'm 54.

Your father got ripped off by soc sec.  Badly.  If he had kept the money taken for soc sec and invested it a Dow indexed fund (yes, even now) he would have been collecting more money from the interest and dividends, never touched the principal, and left you with a nice inheritance.

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Yes, but the majority of US citizens either wouldn't do this, or would be either too dumb or lazy to do this. This would leave tons of people absolutely broke. If the government didn't force us to save for retirement, many people of my parents' generation would be fucked, then the government would have to come up with a whole other system of having to deal with all these broke ass senior citizens who couldn't afford to pay for their medical issues. What then- "Death Camps"?

I'm not saying it's a perfect system by any means, or that it's not corrupt, I'm just saying I think the nation as a whole would be a lot worse off without it.

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closed veil said:

i don't think anyone is saying the military budget should be zero, just that it has gotten WAY too big fighting useless wars that we will never win.

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zappaisgod said:

nicechrisman said:

zappaisgod said:

I'm 54.

Your father got ripped off by soc sec.  Badly.  If he had kept the money taken for soc sec and invested it a Dow indexed fund (yes, even now) he would have been collecting more money from the interest and dividends, never touched the principal, and left you with a nice inheritance.

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Yes, but the majority of US citizens either wouldn't do this, or would be either too dumb or lazy to do this. This would leave tons of people absolutely broke. If the government didn't force us to save for retirement, many people of my parents' generation would be fucked, then the government would have to come up with a whole other system of having to deal with all these broke ass senior citizens who couldn't afford to pay for their medical issues. What then- "Death Camps"?

I'm not saying it's a perfect system by any means, or that it's not corrupt, I'm just saying I think the nation as a whole would be a lot worse off without it.

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So then you support drug prohibition?  The nation prospered for well over a century without it and when it was first enacted people didn't live for 25 years after retirement

If they were going to demand compulsory retirement accounts the least they could have done is invest the money.  But they didn't.  They threw it into the general tax pool and plundered it to buy votes from bums who didn't want to earn their keep.

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I don't understand your question about drug prohibition. I do have mixed feeling about prohibition of notoriously bad drugs-heroin and meth are the 2 I can think of. Like I said, mixed feelings though

Quote:

Yes, but the majority of US citizens either wouldn't do this, or would be either too dumb.

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closed veil said:

Happy2fly said:

closed veil said:

for those of you who think the usa is "the finest example of human freedom" have you ever heard of Portugal? for those of you who think the usa is "the finest example" of  "accomplishment in the history of mankind" have you ever heard of the Roman empire? The Great Pyramids? Easter Island? Stonehenge? i mean Polynesians made it all the way to Hawaii, maybe even main land america in canoes...

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Did you forget the transcontinental railroad, commercial air-travel, or Neil Armstrong?  You have a point about our so called "freedoms", but I think our nation has accomplished quite a bit over the last couple hundred years or so...

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read the second post on page 3 dude, all ready went over this.

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DeadHearts said:

All drugs should be legal. And instead of sending people to prison to use them
and costing the tax payers money to do so. That money should be used in rehabilitation
and other avenues to help people instead of throwing them in a fucking cage while we
all have to pay for it.

You should have the right to choose what you put into ur own body. We do not need
a government to tell us these things.

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DeadHearts said:

All drugs should be legal. And instead of sending people to prison to use them
and costing the tax payers money to do so. That money should be used in rehabilitation
and other avenues to help people instead of throwing them in a fucking cage while we
all have to pay for it.

You should have the right to choose what you put into ur own body. We do not need
a government to tell us these things.

---

DeadHearts said:

DeadHearts said:

All drugs should be legal. And instead of sending people to prison to use them
and costing the tax payers money to do so. That money should be used in rehabilitation
and other avenues to help people instead of throwing them in a fucking cage while we
all have to pay for it.

You should have the right to choose what you put into ur own body. We do not need
a government to tell us these things.

---

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nicechrisman said:

DeadHearts said:

All drugs should be legal. And instead of sending people to prison to use them
and costing the tax payers money to do so. That money should be used in rehabilitation
and other avenues to help people instead of throwing them in a fucking cage while we
all have to pay for it.

You should have the right to choose what you put into ur own body. We do not need
a government to tell us these things.

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I understand your sentiment. My mixed feelings probably mainly stem from the fact that I have lost friends, as well as my only brother to drugs (by lost, I mean dead). Obviously prohibition didn't work there, but neither did treatment. My parents paid for treatment several times. I don't really know the right answer to this one.

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Happy2fly said:

Page 3 huh?  I only see 2...

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closed veil said:

zappaisgod said:

Stonehenge?  We put men on the moon.  Do you think the people if Rome or Egypt had the freedoms that people in America today do?  Polynesia?  They had fucking cannibals.  Portugal?  What of it?  They're totally fucked.  The bill for their freedom from work is come due and it isn't pretty.

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1. can you prove to me we put people on the moon?
2. all of what i mentioned were built BY HAND!
3. wasn't using Rome and Egypt as examples of freedom but of human accomplishment
4. america also has cannibals. and romans were child molesters. you are now trying to inject morals into this discussion.

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DeadHearts said:

Why do you want to pay for people to be kept in prison? Not very progressive thinking
on ur part eh?

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zappaisgod said:

closed veil said:

i don't think anyone is saying the military budget should be zero, just that it has gotten WAY too big fighting useless wars that we will never win.

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They weren't useless.  Do you think it was appropriate to just let the Taliban get away with harboring murdering criminals?  Or Saddam to violate his ceasefire agreement with impunity?  At some point you have to enforce things.  Harsh but true.  Otherwise there is no law.

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The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were not even part of the defense budget.  They were funded by supplementary spending bills outside of the federal budget.

zappaisgod said:

It isn't the fat I want to trim.  I want to make the federal government be a hamster and not a hog.  Why the fuck is the federal government paying to build bike paths?

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I can totally agree with you on that statement, and I think Ron Paul would as well.

zappaisgod said:

DeadHearts said:

Why do you want to pay for people to be kept in prison? Not very progressive thinking
on ur part eh?

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I don't.  I don't want to pay one fucking cent for anybody's drug use.  Not for prison, not for rehab, not for needles, not for medical care.

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