Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |  [ show all ]
Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13500242 -

Kickle said:
How is that a refutation? Its like me saying that all energy happens in the same universe. A lot of things happen in the brain. A lot of things happen in the universe. Energy imprints in the universe as well as in the mind.


So what is it that's actually carried from one life to another?  energy?  What is your definition of energy? 
The same reason those memories don't get carried over is the same reason that "energy" doesn't get carried over.


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13500506 -

Impermanence is carried. Desires are carried. Fears are carried.
My definition of energy? The ability to do work within a system.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13500519 -

Kickle said:
Impermanence is carried. Desires are carried. Fears are carried.
My definition of energy? The ability to do work within a system.


Matter is energy, wavelengths are energy, technically everything is energy, right? I could be wrong but I didn't think so.


--------------------
I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Seanfu]
    #13500562 -

Yeah, but most arisings are not held to. Events that touch what we don't want to see or events that we never want to disappear are held onto strongly.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (11/17/10 10:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation dosen't make sense... [Re: Kickle]
    #13501024 -

Kickle said:
Impermanence is carried. Desires are carried. Fears are carried.
My definition of energy? The ability to do work within a system.


Fears are learned behavior.  What other learned behavior carries over?

Desire is part of the id, but WHAT you desire is also learned.


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13501041 -

Quote:
The same reason those memories don't get carried over is the same reason that "energy" doesn't get carried over.


I believe memories can get carried over. This is because memories do not exists in the brain. Memories are recollection of experience and experience is not physical so how could something non-physical exist in something physical?

I believe we can't remember past lives for other reasons. Primarily that our brain's prevent us from doing so. But also just the fact so much time has passed and my current circumstances compared to a past life are likely so much different that there is nothing for me to be reminded of.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: soldatheero]
    #13501081 -

soldatheero said:
Quote:
The same reason those memories don't get carried over is the same reason that "energy" doesn't get carried over.


I believe memories can get carried over. This is because memories do not exists in the brain. Memories are recollection of experience and experience is not physical so how could something non-physical exist in something physical?

I believe we can't remember past lives for other reasons. Primarily that our brain's prevent us from doing so. But also just the fact so much time has passed and my current circumstances compared to a past life are likely so much different that there is nothing for me to be reminded of.



Is this a past human life?  If so, I'd imagine you'd have a lot of experiences that would remind you of a past life.  You say memories carry over, then you say you believe we can't remember past lives.  Remembering something is recalling past memories, so which is it?

Memories absolutely exist in the brain.  Where else do they exist?  Certainly not in the leg or the arm, since we can lose those without losing our memories.  Or do they exist in this so-called "energy"?

http://thevivacious7.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/making-connections-helping-children-build-their-brains/


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13501208 -

Sigh

Memories are energy and memories can and will move you. Recognizing the brains role is nice, but unless you are planning on cutting out your hippocampus it doesn't provide much utility when working with your own memory. One does not need to speculate on anything post-death to examine the reincarnation of people or events through memory.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13501294 -

Quote:
Is this a past human life?  If so, I'd imagine you'd have a lot of experiences that would remind you of a past life.  You say memories carry over, then you say you believe we can't remember past lives.  Remembering something is recalling past memories, so which is it?




I say you do not remember past lives I did not mean it is impossible. The buddha said he did after attaining enlightenment. There are many many well documented cases of past-life recall, just look at the research of Harvard researcher Ian Stevenson.
Quote:
Memories absolutely exist in the brain.  Where else do they exist?  Certainly not in the leg or the arm, since we can lose those without losing our memories.  Or do they exist in this so-called "energy"?




Of course the leg or the arm do not affect memory. The brain does because the brain is the organ of consciousness and is directly linked to consciousness. If the brain is causing a deficient altered state of consciousness in which the mind cannot function then yes the ability to remember is affected. The point is that it is because consciousness is affected.

No they do not exist in brain or "IN" energy but exist as a byproduct of mind or the continuum of consciousness itself. Not everything is caused by the physical reality consciousness has it's own set of implications. Few people grasp this as the world is in the grips of materialist ie) the sole existence is material and all things can be explained as the result of physical processes. Shake this notion off.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: soldatheero]
    #13503969 -

Oh, the Buddha said.  That convinced me.  Should I go into all the things Mohammed said too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_potentiation

Physical changes happen when memories are made, which makes me think it does have a material connection.

Here's a quote from Stevenson.
"Maybe our beliefs determine our fate: If you believe you will come back, but only as a member of your own faith, that's what happens. If you believe you simply die and don't come back, you don't"

Sounds like he isn't even as sure as you guys.  And it sounds like whatever you want or believe is what happens.  Sounds too good to be true, much like heaven.


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13504200 -

I don't think you can be completely sure if reincarnation is true or not until we die. For all we know all things that make us "us" will go on to the next life, or we become nothing. I don't see why the OP is saying it doesn't make sense yet we don't know how we got here or where were going with certainty.


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: bigmike7104]
    #13504291 -

bigmike7104 said:
I don't think you can be completely sure if reincarnation is true or not until we die.

If you're dead, how can you be sure of anything? And if reincarnation is real, and you happen to have memories of your past life, how can you be sure that those memories are not just random, meaningless thoughts?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: bigmike7104]
    #13504348 -

Quote:
Physical changes happen when memories are made, which makes me think it does have a material connection.




Yeah of course there is a correlation that is what I said the brain is the organ of the mind they are interlaced, the brain affects the mind and the mind affects the brain. That doesn't mean the mind is the brain and just because memories are tied to physical changes in the brain that doesn't really explain or mean anything.
Quote:
"Maybe our beliefs determine our fate: If you believe you will come back, but only as a member of your own faith, that's what happens. If you believe you simply die and don't come back, you don't"




That is his beliefs on explaining how it may take place not whether or not it does take place. The results of his research can suggest it does happen that doens't mean he has to know or explain why it happens. The quote you used shows he doesn't know why it happens that is all.

Well I don't expect to convince you on my own but all I can say is try to keep an open mind about it as a possibility. Good luck on your quest for truth! haha


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: soldatheero]
    #13506061 -

Reincarnation doesn't "make sense". Why hold a belief about it?

Anytime a belief is held, there is a reason. So why do you (anyone) believe in reincarnation? What does it do for you?

-> Seems to me, it does more to pacify the egoic fear of death, than it does to enlighten anyone.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: Rahz]
    #13506166 -

It completely does make sense.  All anybody in this thread can argue is that you can't empirically prove it, which is true.  But the idea doesn't have any logical holes in it.  Lack of evidence isn't a logical hole, it just means I can't expect anybody else to believe in reincarnation if they haven't had certain personal experiences.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: g00ru]
    #13506208 -

Quote:
It completely does make sense.


How so? Has it already been written?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: Rahz]
    #13506401 -

Yeah I feel like i explained it earlier.  But here goes.  What you are as an individual being is a collection of desires, habits, traits, etc.  These are like the architecture of your psyche and in buddhism they're called 'skandas.' It's just a useful term for a discussion like this. After you die, the skandas disperse, but they eventually regroup.  This regrouping is inevitable because of a being's desires. 

Buddhism says there is no irreducible self or soul that continues from life to life, it's just a stream of selves, but from books like Autobigoraphy of a Yogi, I feel like there is still a semi-permanent self that does exist from life to life. The atman or soul.

I can see how this would be illogical if you think the universe is primarily material.  But if you can see how the universe is founded in consciousness, and not the other way around, the idea that the effects of your thoughts and actions will cause you to reincarnate doesn't seem so far fetched.

Science isn't yet at the point where it can seriously tackle an investigation of a phenomenon like this, so naturally the empirical evidence isn't yet on the books.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: Rahz]
    #13506446 -

Quote:
Reincarnation doesn't "make sense". Why hold a belief about it?

Anytime a belief is held, there is a reason. So why do you (anyone) believe in reincarnation? What does it do for you?




Sorry it's not even his beliefs its his speculation.

I don't believe in rebirth I know it's fact. Not only is there evidence of reincarnation, I understand it and know how it makes sense and is the truth. I'v also had out-of body experiences that I cannot deny. All of these combined, rebirth is real beyond any reasonable doubt.

Quote:
How so? Has it already been written?


Not even close, I know how to critically think.

To those of you who think it doesn't make sense you should consider it might just be over your head.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: soldatheero]
    #13506536 -

What are some of these desires, habits and traits?

To me

Desire = id
Habits = Learned Behavior
Traits = Genetics

And if you mean traits as in personality traits, that's also learned behavior.


--------------------
Mushrooms | LSD | Salvia | JWH-018 | AM-2201 |  4-AcO-DMT | 2C-E | 2C-I | 5-MeO-DMTs | 5-MeO-DALT | 5-MeO-MIPT | 25C-NBOMe | MDPV | Methylone | Mephedrone | Nitrous Oxide | Alcohol | DXM | Methoxetamine |  4-MeO-PCP | Xanax | Valium | Phenazepam |  Ambien | Lunesta

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Why reincarnation doesn't make sense... [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13506623 -

That's one way to categorize it.  There are energetic thought imprints to go along with all those sections.  Although, all desires aren't of the id, there are higher desires. Like the desire to create, I don't think that's from the id.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Yet another reincarnation thread
( 1 2 3 all )		 amuzakat 2,728 44 12/06/10 10:11 AM
by desert father
* ... in Literature, and everything else
( 1 2 all )		 shadowed 2,633 23 05/06/10 04:16 AM
by Noteworthy
* Reincarnation and Christianity
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Jellric 8,059 60 12/04/04 07:31 PM
by Fucknuckle
* Mind Blowing Books/Literature?
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Greentality 5,637 62 03/05/14 04:37 PM
by DividedQuantum
* Reincarnation nutters
( 1 2 3 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 2,805 58 08/21/13 10:24 PM
by crumblebum
* Reincarnation
( 1 2 3 all )		 Poid 3,807 52 04/17/10 09:50 PM
by deCypher
* Reincarnation
( 1 2 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 2,010 25 07/21/16 07:20 PM
by laughingdog
* If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC)
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 giza 6,435 91 03/01/11 10:37 AM
by DisoRDeR

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
13,785 topic views. 2 members, 31 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 16 queries.