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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy
    #13460457 -

For some, its God.

For others, its the laws of nature.

And for others, it is fate.

A lot of people, not just religious nuts, bank their long term projected outlooks on life on some sort of "higher power." Some people cling to some belief about God, and use absolute faith to relieve themselves of the psychological burden of toughing life out alone. Other people who aren't religious can be equally comical, for example, and find shelter in their hopelessness or meaninglessness. In this way the individual negative events that present themselves, and all the little minor pains and grievances, pale in comparison to the tsunami of negativity about everything that lies checked just behind the conscious of the person.

We like to parade our anti-theistic selves around like we own the place, but in reality we can have just as many blind spots as the people we claim to have lesser forms of reasoning. Being right is not about being right.

Edited by xFrockx (11/09/10 07:39 PM)

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460528 -

xFrockx said:
A lot of people, not just religious nuts, bank their long term projected outlooks on life on some sort of "higher power."...people who aren't religious can be equally comical, for example, and find shelter in their hopelessness or meaninglessness.

How is finding shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness akin to submitting to a higher power?


xFrockx said:
In this way the individual negative events that present themselves, and all the little minor pains and grievances, pale in comparison to the tsunami of negativity about everything that lies checked just behind the conscious of the person.

So wouldn't finding shelter in something that pales in comparison to the tsunami of negativity about everything be more akin to submitting to a lower (as opposed to higher) power? :undecided:


xFrockx said:
We like to parade our anti-theistic selves around like we own the place, but in reality we can have just as many blind spots as the people we claim to have lesser forms of reasoning.

Who's we?


xFrockx said:
Being right is not about being right.

And 1 does not equal 1. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (11/09/10 08:13 PM)

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13460602 -

You are still doing this Poid, after this long, seriously?
Quote:
"How is finding shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness akin to submiting to a higher power? "


The higher power in that case is more the lack of any "offical" scrutiny over the living of one's life. That's about as far as it goes with some people. Its another way of excusing oneself for living less of a life than they want.
Quote:
"So wouldn't finding shelther in something that pales in comparison to the tsunami of negativity about everything be more akin to submitting to a lower (as opposed to higher) power?"'


Not really. It would be like eating stale chips to keep your mind off suicidal thoughts. Not like submitting to Pan to keep your mind off Satan. Either way, we're off track.

Quote:
"Who's we?"


You are Poid, just you and no one else.

Quote:
"And 1 does not equal 1. "


You are a lazy reader, for you have misread what I wrote obviously since you've shown you thought it was a contradiction. 

"Being right is not about being right."

Look Closely.

"Being right" is not "about being right"
is not the same as
"Being right is not being right."

Even then, you have a very dull form of a contradiction there. "1 does not equal 1" is, in my mind, a softer way of saying "1 is not 1" which might have been a more formally accurate way of mocking me from your misinterpretation you were working with.

Edited by xFrockx (11/09/10 08:03 PM)

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460654 -

I find skeptics to be some of the most frightened people I have ever known.


--------------------

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #13460663 -

If they were afraid, they weren't being skeptical.

Edited by xFrockx (11/09/10 08:10 PM)

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460683 -

xFrockx said:
You are still doing this Poid, after this long, seriously?
Quote:
"How is finding shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness akin to submiting to a higher power? "


The higher power in that case is more the lack of any "official" scrutiny over the living of one's life.

What is ""official" scrutiny", and what makes you think that one who finds shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness necessarily lacks such scrutiny over the living if his/her life?


xFrockx said:
That's about as far as it goes with some people. Its another way of excusing oneself for living less of a life than they want.

Yes, for some people, but I'd like to know whether or not you believe that the great majority of people who find shelter in such things fail to ""officially" scrutinize" the living of their lives.


xFrockx said:
Quote:
"Who's we?"


You are Poid, just you and no one else.

Then how is that we? "We" implies there are two or more individuals; I don't have a Siamese twin or some shit.


xFrockx said:
Quote:
"And 1 does not equal 1. "


You are a lazy reader, for you have misread what I wrote obviously since you've shown you thought it was a contradiction. 

"Being right is not about being right."

Look Closely.

"Being right" is not "about being right"
is not the same as
"Being right is not being right."

OK, my mistake--what do you mean that being right is not "about" being right? Don't we, as individuals, have the prerogative to choose what things are "about"?


xFrockx said:
Even then, you have a very dull form of a contradiction there. "1 does not equal 1" is, in my mind, a softer way of saying "1 is not 1" which might have been a more formally accurate way of mocking me from your misinterpretation you were working with.

Meh, I don't see how that makes the contradiction duller; it's just saying the same thing with different words. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13460745 -

Quote:
"What is ""official" scrutiny", and what makes you think that one who finds shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness necessarily lacks such scrutiny over the living if his/her life?"


What makes you think that I think people who find shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness necessarily lack "official" scrutiny?

What I mean by "official" scrutiny is a belief in judgement in the afterlife, like by St. Peter, or whatever diety decides what afterlife a person deserves based on how they lived. People who have no faith in anything who also shelter in their hopelessness may also lack a fear of being judged in the afterlife. The fear of being judged in the afterlife is what motivates people who believe one ought to live a certain way to not be hypocrites.

Quote:
"Yes, for some people, but I'd like to know whether or not you believe that the great majority of people who find shelter in such things fail to ""officially" scrutinize" the living of their lives."


You're misunderstanding me hardcore, it might be my fault. Its not that the people do or do not have official scrutiny, its that they either have or do not have the fear of having it. Whether or not a diety judges people based on the content of their lives and assigns them an appropriate afterlife is anyone's guess, but some people fear that prospect, while others do not.
Quote:
"Then how is that we? "We" implies there are two or more individuals; I don't have a Siamese twin or some shit."


We can mean an individual if it is used as in the "royal" we. Or if I say so just to be funny and claim I mean it. Only my meanness can determine from that point on whether my meaning holds.

Quote:
"OK, my mistake--what do you mean that being right is not "about" being right? Don't we, as individuals, have the prerogative to choose what things are "about"?"


Being right is not about winning arguments or contests, "being right." I was being sort of metaphorical, alluding to a "right mindset" or something like that. I don't know.

Edited by xFrockx (11/09/10 08:24 PM)

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460747 -

What do you mean by shelter?

Martin Heidegger said that we dwell in language. Also, some Buddhists formally assume doctrine as the three refuge's (Dharma Sangha and Buddha).

Interesting, anyway. On the other hand, what would it mean to be outside? How's the weather out there?

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: daytripper23]
    #13460760 -

"What do you mean by shelter?"

What does an umbrella give from the rain?

On the other hand, what would it mean to be outside? How's the weather out there?

Would it mean anything different than being inside? The weather is what most people would call chilly. No rain as far as I know.

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460772 -

chilly...lol

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: xFrockx]
    #13460958 -

I hold no beliefs concerning a higher power and I'm just fine with dying and knowing there probably isn't anything to look forward to.  If others want to use a higher power like God as their crutch in life, so be it if it makes them more comfortable.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: SuperD]
    #13461113 -

I don't think most people submit to higher powers.

But perhaps examining the word 'higher', and discovering why it is used would be a better starting place. What does higher mean? If "God" is generally thought to be in the sky (as one example), why is that? Why isn't the best power forward, or North East, or... down?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: Rahz]
    #13461149 -

Higher could be where the rain comes from...

"Canst thou remember
A time before we came unto this cell?"
- William Shakespeare, The Tempest, I.ii

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Re: Most of us submit to "higher powers" to be happy [Re: daytripper23]
    #13461178 -

Why is rain more important than dirt and nutrients? Why is the Sun more important than the earth?

Is there another model we're trying to fit them into? I've already mentioned it in the other higher power thread.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Most of us submit to [Re: xFrockx]
    #13461563 -

xFrockx said:
Quote:
"What is ""official" scrutiny", and what makes you think that one who finds shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness necessarily lacks such scrutiny over the living if his/her life?"


What makes you think that I think people who find shelter in hopelessness/meaninglessness necessarily lack "official" scrutiny?

I don't think that, I was just assuming that that is what you were suggesting.


xFrockx said:
The fear of being judged in the afterlife is what motivates people who believe one ought to live a certain way to not be hypocrites.

This is not necessarily true; some people are motivated to live in certain ways due to reasons not related to an afterlife.


xFrockx said:
...but some people fear that prospect, while others do not.


So?


xFrockx said:
We can mean an individual if it is used as in the "royal" we. Or if I say so just to be funny and claim I mean it. Only my meanness can determine from that point on whether my meaning holds.

Yes, we can mean many things; I'm asking you what you're meaning.


xFrockx said:
Quote:
"OK, my mistake--what do you mean that being right is not "about" being right? Don't we, as individuals, have the prerogative to choose what things are "about"?"


Being right is not about winning arguments or contests, "being right."

It is for some people.


xFrockx said:
I was being sort of metaphorical, alluding to a "right mindset" or something like that. I don't know.

I understand that you were being symbolic, but don't get why you would even mention symbolism in a debate, especially when you haven't elaborated on what the said symbolism means.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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