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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: peacinanarchy]
    #820102 - 08/16/02 11:04 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with swami....real happiness comes from your natural state..if its drug induced then how could that be real??

I think we're blurring the line between the intoxicating effects of drugs and the emotional responses to them. Euphoria from snorting coke is one thing, happiness brought on by revelations while on psychedelic drugs are something else entirely. I don't do stimulants or opiates or anything like that, but when I do mushrooms I often become acutely aware of the beauty of nature, people, life, etc, and this makes me immensely happy and appreciative of all that I take for granted noramlly. I don't care what you say, this is real happiness. Emotions experienced on drugs are real emotions. Anyone who has taken psychedelic drugs knows this. To say happiness cannot really exist except in your 'normal' state is ridiculous. I'm convinced our 'normal' state of mind is quite delusional itself. I can't believe anyone who has taken psychedelic drugs would even assert that the emotions experienced while under their influence are somehow fake or 'don't count'. "Yeah I had a bad trip on ten hits of blotter but I wasn't really scared." Yeah right.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #820369 - 08/16/02 12:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

To say happiness cannot really exist except in your 'normal' state is ridiculous. I'm convinced our 'normal' state of mind is quite delusional itself.

I agree.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #821361 - 08/16/02 04:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You make a reasonable case yet in your opening remark, you seemingly contradict your entire argument with
Euphoria from snorting coke is one thing, happiness brought on by revelations while on psychedelic drugs are something else entirely.

What if you liked coke and hated mushrooms, would your opening remark then read differently? Seems you place the emphasis not on feelings like you say, but on revelations.

I don't care what you say,
There is a discussion-stopper right there. That is paramount to saying that while we are here to exchange ideas, your ideas are meaningless to me.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Swami]
    #821384 - 08/16/02 04:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Experience is experience. It's ridiculous to say that some are real and some are not. Every emotion is brought about by something..


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Revelation]
    #821411 - 08/16/02 05:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Never said that.

I don't equate emotion with happiness.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: SwondPooping]
    #823544 - 08/17/02 01:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Hey,
I've definately felt pretty happy from shrooms coolllll just wait till your next harvest !
send INVITE INVITE MEEEEEEE hehehe / just joking


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Invisibledilatedcreature
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Glowing_Eleven]
    #823560 - 08/17/02 02:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Fake happiness ? I've only felt real happiness from shrooms.......... Why do you think that it isn't ? I mean I guess if I had to pick a "fake happiness" substance I'd pick alcohol which seems to work for escapism for alot of people. I think shrooms actually make things alot clearer for myself. Of course you must realize our experiences need not ever be the same with any particular substance. While your experiences may be quite drab that may not be the case for everyone........

wink to other happy shrroomeries


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OfflineAmethystDeceiver
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Registered: 08/17/02
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: dilatedcreature]
    #823758 - 08/17/02 03:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There is no reason to believe that taking drugs is not a legitimate route to happiness. Drugs are simply a part of the environment which we interact with and for some of us interacting with drugs produces happiness, just like for others of us happiness comes from interacting with other people or a large meal.
When Swami pointed out that burned out junkies are not happy, that is equivalent to saying that burned out musicians are not happy, which in no way implies that real happiness is not experienced while playing music.
Furthermore, it is arbitrary to label a drug induced experience as fake just because it is mind altering. Many people experience 'real' happiness while playing sports, during which time their mind is being altered by the effects of adrenaline.

Personally I believe there is more to the mushroom experience that just the physiological, but even broken down to the most straitforward scientific analysis, the happiness experienced can't be discounted.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Swami]
    #824925 - 08/18/02 07:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You make a reasonable case yet in your opening remark, you seemingly contradict your entire argument with
Euphoria from snorting coke is one thing, happiness brought on by revelations while on psychedelic drugs are something else entirely.

What if you liked coke and hated mushrooms, would your opening remark then read differently? Seems you place the emphasis not on feelings like you say, but on revelations.

I guess I was trying to make a distinction between physical buzzes and mental revelations. I believe there is such a thing. Stupid question here; do I have to make all my posts Swami-proof? It seems like all you do is look for bits of arguments that aren't perfect, and then tell us that we are wrong and why, without contributing anything new.

I don't care what you say,
There is a discussion-stopper right there. That is paramount to saying that while we are here to exchange ideas, your ideas are meaningless to me.

Maybe I said this because as far as I'm concerned, there is no argument. I have experienced happiness on drugs. That is a fact. Somebody else's opinion on that particular fact makes it no less a fact. Nobody could possibly know that but me. That particular point is not up for debate in my books. Nobody's ideas are meaningless to me, but anyone who tells me that my happiness is fake is just plain wrong, and I don't think I'm being presumptuous or closed-minded when I say that.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


Edited by CyberChump (08/18/02 07:04 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #825017 - 08/18/02 08:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I hate your lies.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: ]
    #825204 - 08/18/02 10:11 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #825214 - 08/18/02 10:14 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, I was joking with you! LOL

That is an old inside joke from a very good friend I used to tease a lot.

He was very serious and talked about deep important truths all the time. So just to tease him when he called on the phone and I heard his voice I would say that.

Didn't mean to confuse you.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #825300 - 08/18/02 11:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Stupid question here; do I have to make all my posts Swami-proof?
No, that is not possible.

It seems like all you do...
Incorrect generalization...

..is look for bits of arguments that aren't perfect,
I care enough to take the time to try to follow your thinking. How can I understand if you make seemingly contradictory statements?

...and then tell us that we are wrong and why
Opposing statements themselves say that something is amiss, not the persona of Swami.

...without contributing anything new.
... and finally the (untrue) emotional response.

Maybe I said this because as far as I'm concerned, there is no argument. I have experienced happiness on drugs. That is a fact. Somebody else's opinion on that particular fact makes it no less a fact. Nobody could possibly know that but me. That particular point is not up for debate in my books.
Fine, except that you do not show equal respect to the cocaine user's experience.

Nobody's ideas are meaningless to me
except for the Swam's? (...without contributing anything new. )

but anyone who tells me that my happiness is fake is just plain wrong
Never said that.

and I don't think I'm being presumptuous or closed-minded when I say that.
No one ever does.

I like your Origami Avatar.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Swami]
    #825647 - 08/18/02 02:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You are one of the best posters I have ever had the pleasure of conversing with through the medium of the Internet.

This does not mean that I accept everything you say as truth nor does it imply that we see eye to eye on everything.

To see your clear cut reason that shines like diamonds at times and read the flow and rhythm of your posts is a great joy to me.

Off topic I know but there are certain times when I read a post of yours that I am overcome with contentment that I must speak of it.

Sometimes, you just bliss me out.

Hey, you think this phat spliff has anything to do with it? j/k (just this line)

Cheers and more,


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Swami]
    #827298 - 08/19/02 06:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Stupid question here; do I have to make all my posts Swami-proof?
No, that is not possible.
Agreed.

It seems like all you do...
Incorrect generalization...
Exaggeration maybe. I'm just telling you what it seems like to me.

..is look for bits of arguments that aren't perfect,
I care enough to take the time to try to follow your thinking. How can I understand if you make seemingly contradictory statements?
I said that because at the time I posted, you had done nothing in the whole thread except refute other's posts without offering anything else. I still don't see what is so contradictory, and it's interesting how nobody else pointed it out.

...and then tell us that we are wrong and why ...and then tell us that we are wrong and why
Opposing statements themselves say that something is amiss, not the persona of Swami.
To me the persona of Swami for the most part is take somebody's post, bold it, and then explain, line by line, why they are wrong.

...without contributing anything new.
... and finally the (untrue) emotional response.
At least up to my post, you did nothing in this thread except exactly what I said.

Maybe I said this because as far as I'm concerned, there is no argument. I have experienced happiness on drugs. That is a fact. Somebody else's opinion on that particular fact makes it no less a fact. Nobody could possibly know that but me. That particular point is not up for debate in my books.
Fine, except that you do not show equal respect to the cocaine user's experience.
You still don't get it. I was trying to make an example that would illustrate the distinction between the physical feel-good effects of a drug (cocaine euphoria) and the intellectual and emotional responses to the drugs physical effect (revelations on mushrooms). Do I need to get out my Respect-O-Meter and measure each phrase until I am certain that equal respect was given to each?

Nobody's ideas are meaningless to me
except for the Swam's? (...without contributing anything new. )
Neither your criticism nor your own ideas are meaningless to me. I wouldn't be responding if they were.

but anyone who tells me that my happiness is fake is just plain wrong
Never said that.
Never said you did say that.

and I don't think I'm being presumptuous or closed-minded when I say that.
No one ever does.
So that must mean that I am closed-minded to the possibility that my happiness is indeed imaginary and what I thought was happiness was actually an illusion; I wasn't really happy, I was actually sad but couldn't tell. Fine. Call me closed minded on that. I am proudly closed to the idea that anyone else can tell me what emotions I am or am not experiencing. Maybe it would be different if I was a nihilist.

I like your Origami Avatar.
So do I. You don't happen to know how to make one, do you?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: ]
    #827302 - 08/19/02 06:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Didn't mean to confuse you.

Telling inside jokes to people who aren't 'inside' is certain to confuse anyone. You had me confused for a good 30 hours. I like the line though, I'm gonna start using it randomly to confuse people. On the Shroomery and off.

Cheers!


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #827320 - 08/19/02 06:18 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I said that because at the time I posted, you had done nothing in the whole thread except refute other's posts without offering anything else.

So in order for an editor to edit a novel, he must submit a work of fiction first? And the editor of the editor's manuscript must first submit his own work and so on...

If a physicist proposes new mathematics to explain dark matter, before another physicist can point out a potential flaw in the theorist's calculations, he must first submit his own theory?

Sorry, that is not the way scientific or philosophical argument works.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #841603 - 08/25/02 03:40 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

To me the persona of Swami for the most part is take somebody's post, bold it, and then explain, line by line, why they are wrong.

This is very accurate.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Ini]
    #841793 - 08/25/02 08:24 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

That happens to me every time I sit down to dinner and look at my wife and children..............I feel very lucky!


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!



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Offlinepsilo25
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Re: Has anyone felt overwhelming happiness? [Re: Ripple]
    #841844 - 08/25/02 09:16 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

IMO, the euphoric effects of marijuana and all psychedelics have to be separated from those of virtually all other drugs. Cocaine, heroin, methamphetamines and others bring about euphoria by directly stimulating the pleasure centers of the brain. I am yet to here of a "bad trip" brought on by coke or heroin (other than those caused by an overdose), but bad trips are relatively common on psychedelics. Psychedelics can open your mind to a new way of seeing the world, and this can be a scary experience for some, but intensely euphoric for others. Happiness on psychedelics is a real emotional response to the effects of the drug; happiness on coke, heroin, speed, etc. is forced by the chemical action of the drug itself.


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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
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