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Agnostic/Atheist
    #12739843 -

Does it bother anyone else how most people use these two words as if their application is mutually exclusive? It annoys the shit out of me. Gnosis refers to knowledge, theism refers to belief. Your beliefs can be any combination of the two. "Agnostic" is not a proper description of one's beliefs.


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12739853 -

as i understand it:

a-gnostic

without knowledge of


a-theist

denies existence of


one involves certainty, the other does not.


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: lukeboots]
    #12739925 -

lukeboots said:
one involves certainty, the other does not.


Exactly. Therefore, an agnostic would keep open the possibility of being an atheist, without being sure of that, while an atheist should be very certain that he's not an agnostic :grin:

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12739938 -

LSDreamer said:
Gnosis refers to knowledge, theism refers to belief. Your beliefs can be any combination of the two. "Agnostic" is not a proper description of one's beliefs.

A lot of words have definitions that aren't similar to their root-word(s), like denigrate for example:

Quote:
den·i·grat·ed; den·i·grat·ing
Etymology: Latin denigratus, past participle of denigrare, from de- + nigrare to blacken, from nigr-, niger black



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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: Poid]
    #12739940 -

nigr is in denigrate. thus, black is in there.  its in yer quote. :wink:


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: Poid]
    #12739953 -

My point exactly--the term denigrate is partially composed of the root words nigrare and niger, which mean 'to blacken' and 'black' respectively, but the definition of that term does not mention anything about blackness.

This is similar to how the term agnostic, as LSDreamer pointed out, is partially composed of the root word 'gnosis', which refers to knowledge, while not being literally defined as 'knowledge'.


To reiterate my point:
Poid said:
A lot of words have definitions that aren't similar to their root-word(s)...



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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: Poid]
    #12739954 -

Ok, i see that point.


but agnostic literally means "without knowledge."


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: lukeboots]
    #12739961 -

Yeah, according to Wikipedia and Meriam-Webster, it means "without the spiritual knowledge of a saint/enlightened being"--I'm not sure why LSDreamer has a problem with people who describe their beliefs using this term...


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: Poid]
    #12739974 -

Agnostic-halfway evolved

Atheist-fully evolved


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: lukeboots]
    #12740170 -

lukeboots said:
as i understand it:

a-gnostic

without knowledge of


a-theist

denies existence of


one involves certainty, the other does not.


No it doesn't. Atheist doesn't profess certainty, it professes disbelief. You can be agnostic and atheist. The two terms are in absolutely no way mutually exclusive. There's plenty of agnostic theists.


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12740240 -

I'm a weak agnostic/atheist. They're very similar.


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: GoaM]
    #12740242 -

Agnostic is it's not knowable whether there is god, gods, creative force whatever behind the our universe. Athiest is disbelief in such. My beliefs vary, they're only beliefs. LOL. Although it's apparant ideaology is more valuable than human life for many people.


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12740341 -

Generally because language is defined first by people I think we can say atheists believe there isn't a god and agnostics don't know. It's not so black and white as all that anyway.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12740520 -

That's why I believe in Zeus it makes things less confusing.

Also he is  an easy god to appease just throw an animal sacrifice here and there


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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: trekie]
    #12740580 -

trekie said:
That's why I believe in Zeus it makes things less confusing.

Also he is  an easy god to appease just throw an animal sacrifice here and there


haha :dielaughing:


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IM OLD GREGG!!!



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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12741121 -

LSDreamer said:
lukeboots said:
as i understand it:

a-gnostic

without knowledge of


a-theist

denies existence of


one involves certainty, the other does not.


No it doesn't. Atheist doesn't profess certainty, it professes disbelief. You can be agnostic and atheist. The two terms are in absolutely no way mutually exclusive. There's plenty of agnostic theists.


Not quite.  Atheism is the belief that there is no god.  To be "without theism" you are professing certainty that there is no god.  "Agnostic theist" is not an agnostic atheist, and I do not deny that the former exists.  I am one of them.

But back to the point - it does not make sense to say "I know there is no god" [atheist] and "I am uncertain if there is a god" [agnostic] at the same time.  They are mutually exclusive worldviews.


edit: This page would argue with what I've just said though.  I agree with what they say there, contradictory to what I've posted here - as they say "atheism is NOT a worldview, but merely one element that fits into many worldviews" and I can agree with that, but to define it as such is to also say that any philosophic viewpoint is not a worldview, but merely a subset of someone's worldview, and eh, that might be true, but you have to draw the line somewhere.  No one belief "defines" a person.

That website also states that "most atheists do not profess certainty [about there being no god]."  That might be true in the fine print, but it's not at all the way that any atheist I've ever met has explained himself.


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

Edited by lukeboots (06/14/10 11:56 AM)

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: lukeboots]
    #12741128 -

god or not.......im still livin

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: lukeboots]
    #12742081 -

lukeboots said:
Atheism is the belief that there is no god.  To be "without theism" you are professing certainty that there is no god.

No, actually, atheism is the absence of a belief in any supernatural deity--to be "without theism" isn't necessarily to be certain that there is no God.



lukeboots said:
That website also states that "most atheists do not profess certainty [about there being no god]."  That might be true in the fine print, but it's not at all the way that any atheist I've ever met has explained himself.

That's probably because many atheists have a remarkable disdain for religions, and so therefore do not want to be in any way related them; they're probably just speaking out of emotion, rather than intellect when they explain themselves in that way.

I was raised in a Catholic family, and I can't really blame them. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Agnostic/Atheist [Re: Poid]
    #12745534 -

Thus the terms weak atheist and strong atheist. There are differing degrees of non belief.

And Yog-Soggoth ftw! Beats puny Zeus anyday. lol.


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