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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ...
    #12681556 -

subjectivism and relativism.



Explained briefly here
http://www.radicalacademy.com/adiphidiagrams.htm

Your bag or not your bag?


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681567 -

What is a classical realist?

Putting Plato next to Aristotle is like putting Mr. Rodgers next to Marlyn Manson.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #12681650 -

Whenever I see philosophy and charts together I get nervous, and this one takes the fucking cake, I have too many criticisms to even begin to take this nonsensical thing apart.  The thing really only mentions 11 philosophers, 3 of which are familiar to me.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx]
    #12681661 -

Good question.  I was going to create a thread to explain what this Classical Realism or realist school I'm always talking about is.

The Realists, like myself, see Plato as the great questioner with Aristotle answering most of the questions.  As Whitehead said, "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."  (with Aristotle writing most of the footnotes)

The three basics theses are:

  • There is a world of real existence, a world made up of substantial beings related to one another, which exists independently of any human opinions or desires, a world which men have not made or constructed.

  • The substances and relations that are part of this world of real existence can be known by the human mind as they are in themselves. Truth is the correspondence between mind and thing, and certitude is possible. The criterion of truth is objective evidence in whatever form it is presented to the knowing mind.

  • Such knowledge can offer sound and immutable guidance for individual and social action and is, in fact, the only reliable guide to human conduct, individual and social.


We like to call it "common sense refined."  The main disciplines of our philosophy are:

  • Realistic Metaphysics: the study of being or first philosophy, which examines the fact of existence which reason discovers in every empirical datum of whatever sort. It includes the subdisciplines of ontology (study of being qua being), cosmology (study of material being), philosophical anthropology (study of animate being, including man), and theodicy (the philosophical study of God or First Cause).

  • Realistic Epistemology and Logic: the study of human knowledge and how, by means of concepts and other mental representations, we know extra-mental objects, and how concepts must be arranged in propositions and arguments if they are to become the instruments of true knowledge in any field of thought.

  • Realistic Ethics: the study of the human good and those acts which are required by human nature for its perfection, including the habits of choice, or virtues, which must be developed to produce these acts, and the common good of all individual men that is the final end of rational action, including the cooperative structures of habit and choice that are required for the attainment of this end. Ethics, in its capacity as an applied philosophy, includes the subdisciplines of esthetics, political philosophy, social philosophy, jurisprudence, philosophy of education, philosophy of history, and philosophy of religion.


I have a better list that is a little easier to understand but I can't seem to locate it at the moment.


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Islandminded]
    #12681675 -

Islandminded said:
Whenever I see philosophy and charts together I get nervous, and this one takes the fucking cake, I have too many criticisms to even begin to take this nonsensical thing apart.  The thing really only mentions 11 philosophers, 3 of which are familiar to me.


It's ok to disagree with it.  I don't expect it to be accepted or found convincing (as if that matters).  How many terms are you familiar with?


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681696 -

Anything claiming to be certain of its correctness is definitely not my bag. Why do you think objectivity is possible?


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More than treasures found, its just been knowing you.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Qballs]
    #12681751 -

What do you mean by objectivity?

Although it is important not to misread the intention of the author.  They are not claiming to be certain of their correctness; they are claiming to be more correct than certain types of intellectual insanity.  That is a huge difference.


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681803 -

When I use the word objectivity I mean perception that is not interfered with by our own beliefs, prejudices, or conditioning. (Which I do not believe is possible.)

Would the author claim that he is certain that his thinking is more correct than certain other schools of though? If so, I think he is claiming more than he can be absolutely sure of.


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More than treasures found, its just been knowing you.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Qballs]
    #12681829 -

Qballs said:
When I use the word objectivity I mean perception that is not interfered with by our own beliefs, prejudices, or conditioning. (Which I do not believe is possible.)


You're claiming a lot for objectivity.  It's kinda like a pure, unbiased outlook.  In that sense, I agree with you provisionally.

Qballs said:
Would the author claim that he is certain that his thinking is more correct than certain other schools of though? If so, I think he is claiming more than he can be absolutely sure of.


Yes, he would certainly claim that as I would.  To use an analogy from science, if a scientist has discovered that phlogiston theory was incorrect, who would dispute it after examining the facts?


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Qballs]
    #12681847 -

Not possible for you maybe.  My eyes work just fine.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681850 -

Dolhenty continues:

Realistic Philosophy is not a closed system of thought, as many critics have mistakenly supposed. It is a genuine open system of investigation, a comprehensive and continually developing world-view, capable of using new knowledge from the natural and social sciences to expand our intellectual horizon and provide practical solutions to the many problems we face today.

As already pointed out, the foundational beliefs of an authentic Realism are:

  • There is a world of real existence which men have not made or constructed;

  • This real existence can be known by the human mind;

  • Such knowledge is the only reliable guide to human conduct, individual and social.


In summary:

  • The three basic doctrines listed above are held by all men of common sense. But an authentic Realism is not just common sense. It is common sense, critically examined and expanded. Ordinary common sense holds the above doctrines as opinions, but vaguely and confusedly without critical examination. An authentic Realism precisely formulates these principles, analyzes their component concepts, and examines them in the light of the evidence.

  • Common sense opinion is largely unaware of the implications of these principles and their interrelations with one another. Authentic realistic reflection has discovered many implications and systematic connections. Because of its uncritical acceptance of these doctrines, common sense opinion is often unable to defend them against objections and thus is easily led astray into nonrealistic modes of thought, such as has happened today.

  • A philosophy of common sense, critically examined and expanded, an authentic Realism, because of its more exact analysis and critical examination of the evidence, is able to undertake the arduous task of defending these insights against alien ways of thought and of answering critical questions.


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx]
    #12681859 -

xFrockx said:
Not possible for you maybe.  My eyes work just fine.


I don't think he meant perception in that way.  At least I hope not.


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681861 -

What is perception?  Try asking yourself that question twenty times out loud. 

Edited by xFrockx (06/04/10 12:35 AM)

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx]
    #12681887 -

Well, within the school, perception is understood as apprehending, through the senses, a percept, e.g. an egg, a trolley car, a birdbath, etc.


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx]
    #12681895 -

Your eyes work just fine, but that doesn't mean your mind interprets the signals correctly.


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More than treasures found, its just been knowing you.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Qballs]
    #12681902 -

Based on what?


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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12681944 -

Based on the prejudices that person has accumulated over their lifetime. For example (I am unable to find the source for this at  the moment), I have read of an experiment conducted a good number of years ago where they showed a very quick film of a white man struggling to stab a black man with a knife. The white audience overwhelmingly claimed to have seen the black man holding the knife. Although I admit this argument does not hold a lot of weight right now since I can't find the proof.


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More than treasures found, its just been knowing you.

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Qballs]
    #12682009 -

I hold no prejudices.  You won't get far with these lines with me.  I don't even hallucinate when I trip (at least, in the past 10-15 times I haven't)

Edited by xFrockx (06/04/10 01:11 AM)

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #12682670 -

Quote:
  I don't even hallucinate when I trip (at least, in the past 10-15 times I haven't)


Eat more.

Love,
Your Ego

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Re: The development of modern and recent philosophy resulting in the intellectual insanities of ... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #12683406 -

Realistic Ethics: the study of the human good and those acts which are required by human nature for its perfection,

How can these be realistic ethics if the goal is human perfection?

Nothing in the world of real objects is in a perfected state. Unless you consider everything as perfect.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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