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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The Mirror of Entropy
    #12605145 -

While caught perusing the scenes in a Wikipedia vortex, I realized how the definition of entropy cannot be qualified without calling into play all of our assumptions about order, structure, and information.

The first excerpt is: "Entropy is a measure of how disorganized a system is: 'Gain of entropy eventually is nothing more nor less than loss of information'".

If we are measuring disorganization, the extent to which we interpret it as being more or less organized is also revealing of the tool or system we are using to measure it. If we are using background processes like non-entropic systems to measure the ebb and flow of entropy, we still cannot assume those other processes to themselves exhibit any predictability. For instance, ice cubes melting in a warm room as an example of entropy must exclude a definition and lack of influence from the conditions that made the room warm. If I am actively warming the room, I am actively melting the ice -- thus adding information despite the initial (and isolated) measurement that says information was being lost.

Another prob:

Quote:
"Entropy is as such a function of a system's tendency towards spontaneous change.[7][8]


I would argue the tendency towards spontaneous change is the opposite of entropy, it's towards greater and greater states of complexity. Even their own boring "big bang" account of the cosmos suggests this. 

Quote:
For isolated systems, entropy never decreases.[6]


This goes back to my original point and is perhaps used to justify their claims of systems that have a tendency towards entropy. This qualifier depends on effectively isolating a system -- which seems to be more of a linguistic frontier and is thus a philosophically tricky thing to do. Again, I would argue that no system is completely closed; they are more or less permeable based on a continuum that doesn't conclude with either polarity of "open" or "closed".


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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: Arden]
    #12605178 -

I have studied entropy on and off for years. It really fascinates me to the point where it consumes my every thought. How did you come across the word or term?


--------------------



:murray:

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: blissedout]
    #12605235 -

Quote:
How did you come across the word or term?



I don't recall exactly, but likely in a science education scenario in high school or undergrad.

Quote:
It really fascinates me to the point where it consumes my every thought.


Personally, synchronicity has had me by the balls for awhile.

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: Arden]
    #12605278 -

Yeah, order is kinda meaningless.  As soon as I figure out a pattern to randomness I will let you know.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: deCypher]
    #12605344 -

Quote:
As soon as I figure out a pattern to randomness I will let you know.


As soon as we attempt to pattern randomness, it becomes static in our representation. Math models of chaos, even the ones that are expandable and dynamic, assume that model of predictability will endure. Not to mention the humor that is a system studying a system, and pretending either one can be still long enough to sketch a picture.

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: Arden]
    #12605389 -

Like I said. Fascinating.


--------------------



:murray:

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: blissedout]
    #12606098 -

What's always fucked me up about this is how "disorder" and "complexity" appear so similar, yet it seems that the rule of entropy states that complex systems fall apart over time. 

Anyone familiar with Wolfram's Rule 30?


It's a figure produced by computing the pigmentation of a row based on the pattern of the row above. Very simple rules, but very complex output.

Now ... is that pattern orderly?
Is it disorderly?
Is it entropic?

I really don't know.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: blissedout]
    #12606232 -

blissedout said:
I have studied entropy on and off for years. It really fascinates me to the point where it consumes my every thought. How did you come across the word or term?


I went to one of those hippy alternative experimental colleges back in the 70s. It was a fucking blast. It was in a farm community that was mostly gone but the farm houses were still there and rented out to us. We all named the house we lived in. One was called Entropy and had some really interesting folk living in it. I remember when I found out what it meant it was a real shock but I wasn't sure why at that time. It took me years to really think of some of the implications.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Mirror of Entropy [Re: Icelander]
    #12606478 -

Icelander said:
blissedout said:
I have studied entropy on and off for years. It really fascinates me to the point where it consumes my every thought. How did you come across the word or term?


I went to one of those hippy alternative experimental colleges back in the 70s. It was a fucking blast. It was in a farm community that was mostly gone but the farm houses were still there and rented out to us. We all named the house we lived in. One was called Entropy and had some really interesting folk living in it. I remember when I found out what it meant it was a real shock but I wasn't sure why at that time. It took me years to really think of some of the implications.


Entropy and Ivory, Live Together In Perfect Harmony, side by side on my keyboard oH Lord why can't we?



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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