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Gabbro said:
I was watching the late George Carlin last night when I came across a lovely little number on Environmentalism and 'Saving the Planet'.


Two very important points he brought out that I think are worth discussing.

1) Our ideas about Saving the planet are unfounded, because the planet is just fine...its the people that are fucked!  Furthermore, the planet does not need saving...we do!  And if the planet needs to get rid of us it will, "shake us off like a bad case of fleas."

 
2) He seems to think that most, if not all, environmentalists do not really care about the planet.  In his words:

not in the abstract they don't..not in the abstract

So...

Does the planet really need saving..or is this just another one of human's attempts to try and control nature?  What does Carlin really mean in that environmentalists 'in the abstract' do not really care about the planet? Is this true..or was Carlin just a callous old fart and was merely attempting to 'stir the shit' for his act?

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GC was one of those rare logical and truly caring humans that come along in a rare while.

Modern environmentalists remind me of the new age books that have titles like "Use your Spiritual Evolution to grow rich"  Just another angle on capitalist greed to get money from suckers. Anyway I agree with George. That's not to say in any way that I am in favor of disrespecting our planet for personal gain cause that is even worse then "environmentalists".

Population control is the issue. Humans will always be messy in the environment. If you don't have too many humans the environment can clean up that mess. But if you overload the system the drain clogs.

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But if you overload the system the drain clogs.

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Silversoul said:
When someone tells me they're anti-environmentalist, that tells me that they're in favor of human extinction.

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Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist.

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

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Somehow I figured you'd be on the pro-extinction side.

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Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist.

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

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You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out  

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human

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RationalEgo said:

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Silversoul said:
When someone tells me they're anti-environmentalist, that tells me that they're in favor of human extinction.

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Ha! When someone tells me they are an environmentalist, that tells me that they are in favor of human extinction! How odd.

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Gabbro said:

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Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist.

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

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You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out  

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human

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Had you read the post above yours you would have gotten your answer. Maybe you think my stance makes me pretty heartless. But here's how I look at it. I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals. The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living. And I believe it will always be this way. That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk.

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Icelander said:

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Gabbro said:

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Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist.

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

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You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out  

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human

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Had you read the post above yours you would have gotten your answer. Maybe you think my stance makes me pretty heartless. But here's how I look at it. I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals. The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living. And I believe it will always be this way. That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk.

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wa?????

so you are saying that people who do not live as well as you do (or any of us for that matter) are not as happy?  They do not lead fulfilling lives? 

So the affluent (ie white people or 'well to do' people) who are 'healthy folk' during this period are the ones who live the best...and those who are less affluent (ie people who are poor) have so much suffering and so human extinction is probably best for them

Ever hear of Malthus?  Go read his arguments and see how racist they were during his time.  He uses the exact type of thinking that you do and unfortunately he was highly influential during his time. Your statement is like some weird utilitarian argument where the best thing for humanity is to eradicate it so that 'utility' is maximized hahaha

It's not about being heartless mate, it's about being ignorant.  You have NO idea how people live and how they 'get by' as you would probably think of it.  If you had been to what we in affluent nations call 'third world nations', and actually lived there for a bit, you would know that many people live beautiful lives without having much at all.