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OfflineGabbro
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Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us?
    #11401602 - 11/07/09 01:12 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I was watching the late George Carlin last night when I came across a lovely little number on Environmentalism and 'Saving the Planet'.


Two very important points he brought out that I think are worth discussing.

1) Our ideas about Saving the planet are unfounded, because the planet is just fine...its the people that are fucked!  Furthermore, the planet does not need saving...we do!  And if the planet needs to get rid of us it will, "shake us off like a bad case of fleas."

 
2) He seems to think that most, if not all, environmentalists do not really care about the planet.  In his words:

not in the abstract they don't..not in the abstract

So...

Does the planet really need saving..or is this just another one of human's attempts to try and control nature?  What does Carlin really mean in that environmentalists 'in the abstract' do not really care about the planet? Is this true..or was Carlin just a callous old fart and was merely attempting to 'stir the shit' for his act?


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Gabbro]
    #11401649 - 11/07/09 01:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Environmentalism is a new religion and a deadly one. It essentially casts human beings as evil for being human and using nature to our advantage. Its utopian vision of a perfect paradise is an earth without human beings. It's current dogma is the global warming hype spurred along by Al Gore and the likes.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Gabbro]
    #11402830 - 11/07/09 08:40 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gabbro said:
I was watching the late George Carlin last night when I came across a lovely little number on Environmentalism and 'Saving the Planet'.


Two very important points he brought out that I think are worth discussing.

1) Our ideas about Saving the planet are unfounded, because the planet is just fine...its the people that are fucked!  Furthermore, the planet does not need saving...we do!  And if the planet needs to get rid of us it will, "shake us off like a bad case of fleas."

 
2) He seems to think that most, if not all, environmentalists do not really care about the planet.  In his words:

not in the abstract they don't..not in the abstract

So...

Does the planet really need saving..or is this just another one of human's attempts to try and control nature?  What does Carlin really mean in that environmentalists 'in the abstract' do not really care about the planet? Is this true..or was Carlin just a callous old fart and was merely attempting to 'stir the shit' for his act?





GC was one of those rare logical and truly caring humans that come along in a rare while.

Modern environmentalists remind me of the new age books that have titles like "Use your Spiritual Evolution to grow rich"  Just another angle on capitalist greed to get money from suckers. Anyway I agree with George. That's not to say in any way that I am in favor of disrespecting our planet for personal gain cause that is even worse then "environmentalists".:satansmoking:

Population control is the issue. Humans will always be messy in the environment. If you don't have too many humans the environment can clean up that mess. But if you overload the system the drain clogs.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11402946 - 11/07/09 09:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

But if you overload the system the drain clogs.




But once you are bald, that problem is pretty much solved.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11402995 - 11/07/09 10:12 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

From your several posts on this subject I'm guessing you are mentally adjusting to the prospect.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11403078 - 11/07/09 10:35 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

By reducing my coefficient of drag, I will be that much faster. Wheee!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Gabbro]
    #11404093 - 11/07/09 01:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The real point of environmentalism is to keep the planet sustainable for humans.  The earth will outlive all of us, but there's a very real possibility that we might tip the balance of the earth's ecosystems to the point that the majority of humans will die off.  When someone tells me they're anti-environmentalist, that tells me that they're in favor of human extinction.


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404113 - 11/07/09 01:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
When someone tells me they're anti-environmentalist, that tells me that they're in favor of human extinction.




Ha! When someone tells me they are an environmentalist, that tells me that they are in favor of human extinction! How odd.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404115 - 11/07/09 01:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'm anti environmentalist. :thumbup:

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11404135 - 11/07/09 01:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist. :thumbup:

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :grin:



Somehow I figured you'd be on the pro-extinction side. :smirk:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11404281 - 11/07/09 01:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

"If you don't know me by now,
you ain't never gonna know me" -some stupid song by some stupid guy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11404520 - 11/07/09 02:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

but i have extinction anxiety  :shocked:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: deff]
    #11404608 - 11/07/09 02:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Don't we all. Maybe you think my stance makes me pretty heartless. But here's how I look at it. I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals. The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living. And I believe it will always be this way. That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/07/09 02:30 PM)


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OfflineGabbro
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11407759 - 11/07/09 10:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist. :thumbup:

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :grin:





You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out :lol: 

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human


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OfflineGabbro
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11407767 - 11/07/09 10:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
When someone tells me they're anti-environmentalist, that tells me that they're in favor of human extinction.




Ha! When someone tells me they are an environmentalist, that tells me that they are in favor of human extinction! How odd.





why?  explain yourself!


hehehehehe


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Gabbro]
    #11407818 - 11/07/09 10:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gabbro said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist. :thumbup:

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :grin:





You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out :lol: 

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human





Had you read the post above yours you would have gotten your answer. Maybe you think my stance makes me pretty heartless. But here's how I look at it. I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals. The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living. And I believe it will always be this way. That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11407919 - 11/07/09 11:01 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Over population is what's causing the majority of human fuck ups IMO. I would expand but I'm very sleepy, maybe later.


--------------------
"Some are born to sweet delight, others to the endless night."


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OfflineGabbro
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11407959 - 11/07/09 11:04 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Gabbro said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm anti environmentalist. :thumbup:

Human extinction is the most beautiful thing that could happen to humans imo. In general.

Remember what Spock sez. " The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :grin:





You're anti- environmentalist?  why? It's a pretty closed minded statement and general statement right there.


I know some people who actually do care about the environment around them, and try their best to live sustainably...they do exist you know. They have great ideas to boot.

And why would you think that human extinction is the best thing to happen to humans?  I would be one to say falling in love is more beautiful, or at least eating a really good vege lasagna would be much more beautiful than dying out :lol: 

But hey...maybe I'm just some environmental extremist who thinks that being pro environment means anti-human





Had you read the post above yours you would have gotten your answer. Maybe you think my stance makes me pretty heartless. But here's how I look at it. I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals. The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living. And I believe it will always be this way. That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk. :shrug:




wa?????

so you are saying that people who do not live as well as you do (or any of us for that matter) are not as happy?  They do not lead fulfilling lives? 

So the affluent (ie white people or 'well to do' people) who are 'healthy folk' during this period are the ones who live the best...and those who are less affluent (ie people who are poor) have so much suffering and so human extinction is probably best for them :lol:

Ever hear of Malthus?  Go read his arguments and see how racist they were during his time.  He uses the exact type of thinking that you do and unfortunately he was highly influential during his time. Your statement is like some weird utilitarian argument where the best thing for humanity is to eradicate it so that 'utility' is maximized hahaha

It's not about being heartless mate, it's about being ignorant.  You have NO idea how people live and how they 'get by' as you would probably think of it.  If you had been to what we in affluent nations call 'third world nations', and actually lived there for a bit, you would know that many people live beautiful lives without having much at all.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Gabbro]
    #11408058 - 11/07/09 11:18 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Boy you are something else.

so you are saying that people who do not live as well as you do (or any of us for that matter) are not as happy?  They do not lead fulfilling lives?

Where did I say any of this?  Pardon me but do you know anything about what is going on outside your bubble? War, starvation, depression (i know that one) and a million other "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" that mankind is heir to.

Your the racist dood. I never for one second put myself outside of the common misery.

Oh yeah, I've been in third world nations. But not in the middle of a massive war or starvation or political upheaval. Not to mention the obese depressed masses in America.



:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/07/09 11:20 PM)


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OfflineGabbro
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Re: Save the Planet? A bit of George Carlin in all of us? [Re: Icelander]
    #11408222 - 11/07/09 11:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

ok lets go through it slowly since you're a bit slow :wink:

I think that a very small percentage of humans in any given historical period will develop into healthy, happy, individuals.

SO then...who are the happy healthy people, and who are not?

The rest experience by degree much more angst and suffering then any kind of real joy in living.


Again...who are those that suffer angst and suffering and who do not?

And I believe it will always be this way.

lol

but anyway these ideas of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' are linked to people who experience, as you say in your own words..

War, starvation, depression (i know that one) and a million other "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" that mankind is heir to.


So by these definitions, and your standards, where do the majority of happy healthy folk live?  In places or war or starvation? where are those place? those who live in affluent nations? Not hard to understand.

You may try to opt out by saying that people in affluent nations may suffer as well, which is true, but in your own words, and through the way you have implied where suffering is so much...i think my point is crystal clear


That's a lot of suffering that could be avoided if we were not here. And it's really too bad about the few really healthy folk.

which leads to comments such as these that are, as I stated before, a rather weird utilitarian argument where the best way to maximise utility if for human extinction....*still makes me chuckle a bit*

you as one person cannot possibly sit there and say that the majority of humanity experiences 'this or that' and therefore extinction is the best option.  Sit back and mull on this thought a bit because those comments are bad news.

I would expect these sorts of comments somewhere else, but in a philosophy forum??

btw..me racist??  please tell me how...and I thought name calling was not allowed here...


Edited by Gabbro (11/07/09 11:49 PM)


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