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Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11356480 -

RationalEgo said:
Band of Gypsys said:
I told you, buy a book.


I've probably read more books than you've had hot dinners.


How would you know this? It is also irrelevant, what is important in this conversation is which books your read.


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S o m e  T e x t

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11356509 -

RationalEgo said:
Band of Gypsys said:
Those evil modern clinical psychologists and psychiatrists are trying to turn people into zombies.
:rofl2:
]


Psychology and psychiatry are both in their infancy, trial and error stages of development. The fields struggle to even have a valid definition of what conciousness is. Of course they are going to try and get a grasp on the mind through any means necessary. That is not a credit to the practice of mindless...I mean mindfulness.


You won't accept psychology as a source in a psychology forum. That is special.


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S o m e  T e x t

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11356809 -

Band of Gypsys said:
RationalEgo said:
Band of Gypsys said:
I told you, buy a book.


I've probably read more books than you've had hot dinners.


How would you know this? It is also irrelevant, what is important in this conversation is which books your read.


Whats interesting is that you waltz into this thread, declare me ignorant without presenting a single idea of your own and then proceed to tell me that I need to read the books you have.

I wont debate with you unless you agree to debate the ideas presented here and  agree not to ad homenin attack and appeal to the authority of your own 'obviously' supreme education. :smirk:

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11356836 -

RationalEgo said:
You imply that conciousness can exist without something to perceive, but that is a contradiction in terms.


I am implying no such thing.  Consciousness is more an action than a thing.  I'm talking about de-centering one's consciousness so as to make oneself aware of the ambient phenomena you otherwise would be unaware of.  Kind of like how getting away from the city lights can help make the stars more visible.

Quote:
An active mind is not 'drifting' from one thing to the next. It has purpose and intent in its method of 'thinking', that is to identify and pursue objective values. A mind that does not think is one that 'drifts from one thing to the next' with no purpose or reason in its doing so.


But even thoughts drift from one thing to the next.  The point is that so long as your mind continues its constant chatter, it is avoiding being present in the moment.

Quote:
You are also suggesting (if I am understanding your argument correctly) that emotions are by nature irrational and that this is the part of the mind that is 'repressed' by rational thought and inquiry. Allow me to quash that assumption. Emotions have causes and one can discover what they are and why they arise. In fact it is essential to do so.


Again, you misinterpret me.  I have not even brought up emotions.  Neurological studies have shown that emotions are actually essential to reason.  What I'm talking about is the pre-rational, archetypal levels of consciousness.  This is what psychology tries to uncover.  I would refer you to Nathaniel Branden's book, The Disowned Self.

Quote:
This idea of 'pure experience' is another contradiction that implies that human beings have an "uncaused", undefineable aspect that can only be reached by a method that negates thinking and reasoning. That is a notion that it is divorced from any identifiable concretes or abstractions and worse it is the method (of no method) by which shyster mystics (who appeal to the authority of their own experience of course) attempt to usurp the reasoning faculty of their victims minds. Just like all mystics they evade the fact that their so called method attempts to abdicate conciousness and negate the reality of cause and effect.


Once again you misinterpret me(there seems to be a pattern here).  When I speak of pure experience, I'm not talking about experience of nothing.  I'm talking about experience of nothing in particular -- a defocused level of awareness, sort of like exercising your mind's peripheral vision.

Quote:
As for your 'benefits of meditation' link. There is a benefit to relaxation and 'resting' ones mind. There is not however a benefit in the vegetation  of the mystics method, and that is precisely what I identified as being of not benefit in my previous post.


Wrong.  It is specifically about mindfulness meditation.  You're being deliberately ignorant here, and that is a product of a psyche that has not integrated its shadows.  You love to denounce you not only don't understand, but refuse to understand, and that makes you irrational.  Good day, sir.


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Edited by Silversoul (10/31/09 12:03 PM)

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11356847 -

You want me to accept the validity of all the ideas in psychology and psychiatry based upon a Wikipedia article you posted. Now that is special. :smirk:

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: Silversoul]
    #11356903 -

a defocused level of awareness, sort of like exercising your mind's peripheral vision.

My discussion with Veritas this morning went along these lines. I'm thinking that I'm agreeing with much of your line of reasoning here as I understand it.

I think its mostly those who are new to their understanding of mind that may think that no mind means nothing going on. Your  remarks about clearing the needless chatter  rings true to me. I think underneath that uncontrolled chatter is some real pertinent thought that is really telling us something important about our experience here. And it's not just an endless chatter.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: Icelander]
    #11357245 -

I'm liking your posts silversoul, the psyche is a funny world... it seems to me people like rationalego would like very much to setup their comprehensive view of the world, right now... neglecting the fact that our personal and collective view of ourselves is IMO no where near hollistic/complete and probably always will be... we are always becoming and each of our lifetimes right now will neglect to give us the solid ground many of us desire. To try to sum up consciousness with any cohesive certainty with the language using mind seems funny to me, IMO we barely know ourselves. The language using self is the forefront director of the body, mind to me is the "idea" of the whole body and it entails a lot.... at the "forefront" we have a lot of a domain to work with and the human has done a good job of succeeding in life via his abstractions, bravo. Though it seems crude to me when delving into these topics to think that one has the authority to truly define oneself, consciousness is extremely hard to define, totally.... Too much demand of means to ends always in the rational approach, sometimes things just accidently/randomly happen or whatever - though our telological language using self is rightly hidden (most of the time) from those inflected functions of the mind-sponge.. and a lot of the feeling of consciousness for the human animal seems hilariously like that if you discover some of it....

I feel bad for not being alllllllllllll that clear here, but oh well.... it seems like the necessity for fimiliarity and consistency is all too prevelent in people who seem to dogmatically subscribe to the necessity (at least before its time) for rational explanations of everything, of even what is most intimate - though the world gets a bit murky with the application of these abstractions at times, and so what? - All thats left to do is point fingers and say, mystic head blah blah - well lets not be so crude in our generalizations both ways I guess......... though one could say at that point the opposite has some need for mystifiying everything, ah but when dealing with generalizations of peoples needs I think there is often so much middle ground/overlap - which is probably the source of the calamity each way... but such is life IMO :smirk:


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: andrewss]
    #11357281 -

It's that absolute certainty that repulses me in certain posters here. To say one is certain of any ultimate truth is to say one is capable of being on equal footing with all creation. Not being a part of the whole but in touch with the totality of all that is. It seems completely self evident that this is an impossibility. We are part of something that engulfs us and is beyond our understanding for now at least. We are not in the know. We just aren't no matter how uncomfortable that feels.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11357572 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11357688 -

I agree. It's not about not thinking. It's about thinking in a healthy, skillful, productive manner. If we could do that, there would be a lot less to think about.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/31/09 01:42 PM)

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11357725 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11357731 -

:thumbup: nice


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: Icelander]
    #11357732 -

Icelander said:
It's that absolute certainty that repulses me in certain posters here.


Hey!  :hi:

Quote:
To say one is certain of any ultimate truth is to say one is capable of being on equal footing with all creation. Not being a part of the whole but in touch with the totality of all that is. It seems completely self evident that this is an impossibility.


Please explain how it is impossible?

If the whole is really whole, then it must be in all the parts
Why cant the part go within itself & realize the whole?
Its not impossible, im more than certain, beyond beleif

Certainty is not whats repulsive, thats just on the surface, an excuse...
Words are only words
The repulsion is the mind, from the whole

:peace:


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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Chronic7]
    #11358225 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: Chronic7]
    #11358353 -

I won't say it's impossible I guess. It's just that there is absolutely no evidence of it anywhere and their never has been.:shrug:

You have never backed up any of your claims about this here. How is that different than the Christian who claims to have a personal relationship with god and knows I am going to hell. I keep asking this and I never get a straight answer. He will tell you that if you only ask his god to come into your heart you will feel the spirit of god (holy spirit)  in you..Virtually millions of people claim this. I never felt it and I tried it. It's the same with you. I tried meditating for years and never had one of the experiences you claim you will have if you just try it for yourself. So I should believe you and not them.

Frankly I don't believe either of you. If they can be delusional  you certainly can be. Or maybe they are right and you and I are wrong. :satansmoking: It's all a crap shoot if one needs no supporting evidence that can be demonstrated.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/31/09 03:39 PM)

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11358384 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11358412 -

Maybe you didn't try hard enough

I was certainly waiting for this one and just like a trained monkey.... :monkeydance:

Yes I admit I didn't try hard enough.  I did my best but I'm just not spiritual enough to experience things there is no evidence of. :shrug:

How was I uncivil yesterday. Please provide me with some examples. I'm not saying you're wrong. I mean you know what is what as you did try hard enough.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11358426 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11358460 -

I am not a trained monkey, speak for yourself. I am much more like a trained ape or baboon.

Now that we have cleared that up.

I did the basic stuff of sitting and watching everything coming up in the mind. Counting breath,  focusing on my third eye or on a color in my vision etc.  I did some mantra shit too. I done it all baby, I'm a meditation expert.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "Be Present" they say "But don't think!" *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11358469 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

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Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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