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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11337145 -

That value isn't the issue.  Why would anyone counterfeit PMs right now when almost everyone is merely holding them for the future?

You wouldn't see wide scale counterfeiting until it was used as a unit of exchange.

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
    #11337151 -

Horseshit.

If it was so easy to counterfeit them people would.


PMs are very liquid.

It is easy to sell off your PMs for government fiat.

Your argument does not hold water.


The value is the issue.  If an oz of gold is worth a grand on the market people certainly would attempt to "counterfeit" the gold.


Zap's argument that PMs would be easier to counterfeit paper is just batshit insane.:crazy2:

Edited by Mr.Al (10/28/09 09:32 AM)

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11337171 -

It does hold water. You are just delusional and stuck on your own opinion (note: not fact).

Right now gold is traded primarily by those who know a great deal about what they are carrying and trading.  The same is not true for paper currency.  Obviously it would be much tougher to swindle the latter than the former.

When (more like if) you see gold getting a larger audience of passive investors, you will be more likely to see counterfeiting.

The liquidity of PMs are irrelevant if those buying and selling them can tell fakes from reals.

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
    #11337199 -

Yeah...

Show me a tek on counterfeiting PMs.


The liquidity of PMs is not irrelevant because if it were not damn near impossible to counterfeit PMs people would be doing it because gold is at 1000/oz.

You are delusional if you think that counterfeiting PMs would be easy.


Even people not familiar with PMs would do their homework on them if they started being used for day to day purchases.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11337686 -

Mr.Al said:
Yeah...

Show me a tek on counterfeiting PMs.


The liquidity of PMs is not irrelevant because if it were not damn near impossible to counterfeit PMs people would be doing it because gold is at 1000/oz.

You are delusional if you think that counterfeiting PMs would be easy.


Even people not familiar with PMs would do their homework on them if they started being used for day to day purchases.


Delusional?

I'd say you're delusional if, for even a moment, you truly believe that if coin was the only accepted monetary unit that counterfeits would not be made.

Using superdollars as an example..... the suspected source among others is N. Korea. Do you thing that the "Dear Leader" would suddenly decide it wasn't worth the effort to mint counterfeit coins? Bullshit. Further, the average person most likely wouldn't know a counterfeit bill if it was shoved up their ass. Suddenly they'd know a counterfeit coin?

Coins aren't counterfeited currently because bills are easy and because current coinage is of a value that makes it not worthwhile. If bills went away and high value coins took their place I have no doubt the "bad guys" would start minting their own coins.

I mean for fucks sake, some people will do whatever is necessary to defraud others.

You need a reality refresher Al.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11341694 -

Mr.Al said:
Show me a tek on counterfeiting PMs.


coins are being counterfeited, it's fairly common in the antique coin
market, I've seen several at a friends pawn shop


http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11343747 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Mr.Al said:
Show me a tek on counterfeiting PMs.


coins are being counterfeited, it's fairly common in the antique coin
market, I've seen several at a friends pawn shop


http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html


True enough but I'm guessing he means large scale as opposed to select pieces.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11344113 -

You need to get a clue.

I don't know about you but I haven't seen any counterfeit one ounce platinum or gold coins flooding the market.


You need to understand that when I talk about counterfeiting I am referring chiefly to "legal" counterfeiting.


The amount of counterfeiting that goes on illegally with paper or metal isn't even worth mentioning compared to legal counterfeiting.


It is about utilizing mediums of exchange that do not destroy the fruit of one's labor.

It is about asserting the truth that government is inferior to the individual.


http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html

W.T.F.  I am not talking about old fucking coins that people collect.  I am talking about precious metals used as a medium of exchange.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (10/29/09 09:19 AM)

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344379 -

Mr.Al said:
I don't know about you but I haven't seen any counterfeit one ounce platinum or gold coins flooding the market.


*Sigh* Are they used on an everyday basis by everyone?

No? Thanks for playing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11344399 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Mr.Al said:
I don't know about you but I haven't seen any counterfeit one ounce platinum or gold coins flooding the market.


*Sigh* Are they used on an everyday basis by everyone?

No? Thanks for playing.



They were only used on an everyday basis for thousands of years without counterfeit problems.

Sometimes government would devalue the medium of exchange through seniorage or adding inferior metals.


In a free market situation metal that is not pure isn't desired.

We only run into problems with precious metals when government controls it...











Here's the real question though...



If you recognize that monopolies are inherently bad in an economy why would you suppose that a monopoly on legal tender would be any different?


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344424 -

Quote:
They were only used on an everyday basis for thousands of years without counterfeit problems.


Because they had the technology to do so that we do now back then?

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
    #11344450 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
They were only used on an everyday basis for thousands of years without counterfeit problems.


Because they had the technology to do so that we do now back then?



There are many independent recognizable mints that people today use to buy precious metals.




It is the market itself that prevents assholes from counterfeiting the precious metals.




Again, how do you counterfeit metal?

The weight to volume ratio of the metal would be off to begin with....

If a mint wanted to stay in business they would not be able to counterfeit very long.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (10/29/09 10:51 AM)

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344517 -

Mr.Al said:
They were only used on an everyday basis for thousands of years without counterfeit problems.


Carrier pigeons were used to communicate. Did that not change?

Horses were used instead of cars. Bicycles instead of motorcycles. Did that not change?

The Gutenberg press wasn't the fastest way to do things. Didn't that change?

If paper money is phased out and coin phased in, people will counterfeit that as well. Count on it.


Quote:
If you recognize that monopolies are inherently bad in an economy why would you suppose that a monopoly on legal tender would be any different?


I don't think monopolies are always bad. Just imagine several kinds of money.

Storekeeper: Where you from stranger? We don't use shells around here!
Customer: Dang! How bout these pebbles?
Storekeeper: Get the fuck out of my store!

Now before you tell me that there are many currencies around the world.... try taking one of these or one of
these into your local 7-11 to buy a burrito. Didn't work? Try this. What? Still no burrito?

Sucks being you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11344543 -

Government monopolizing the money supply is a statist reactionary viewpoint.


The idea of an economy that utilizes free market money is LITERALLYrevolutionary.


http://mises.org/story/2942


If you support government monopoly money I guess that makes you a redcoat:rofl:!


Again explain to me how the fuck people are going to counterfeit the specific weight-to-volume measurements to each precious metal?

Precious metals are homogenous in nature.  It is ridiculously difficult (read: damn near impossible) to copy the qualities that specific metals display!


Remember though that illegal counterfeiting IS NOT THE DAMN PROBLEM.  It is the legal but immoral counterfeiting of money that needs to end.  The legal counterfeiting could not exist without the monopoly created by legal tender laws that prevent enforcing contracts with anything but goddamn government fiat!


Your "understanding" of what might constitute free market money (I mean, shells, WTF?!?) does not need to be made fun of by me.  It can stand by itself in that regard.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (10/29/09 11:05 AM)

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344572 -

Mr.Al said:
Again, how do you counterfeit metal?


Wow. Who said anything about counterfeiting metal? I thought we were talking about counterfeiting coins?

Quote:
The weight to volume ratio of the metal would be off to begin with....


Yup. Up until the moment someone used the real metal to plate a fake slug. They wouldn't even have to weigh the exact same amount. Can you pick up several similarly sized pieces of metal and notice a difference? If you can tell one that's off by even a gram I'd be amazed.

Once the return on the investment of the counterfeiters was higher, they'd be doing coins as well.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11344580 -

Show me some evidence of convincing fake precious metals.

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/

They would not be like anything put out by a recognized mint.


The rounds (non government coin) or bars are made of the precious metal.  Again, I am not talking about coin collecting.  I am referring to free market money.


If it were easy to fake the qualities that these metals display then the metals would not be recognized as having lasting value.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (10/29/09 11:10 AM)

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344586 -

Mr.Al said:
I mean, shells, WTF?!?


I weep for you.

Hopefully your ability to recognize fake money is better than your ability to recognize satire.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344595 -

Mr.Al said:
Show me some evidence of convincing fake precious metals.

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/

They would not be like anything put out by a recognized mint.


The rounds (non government coin) or bars are made of the precious metal.  Again, I am not talking about coin collecting.  I am referring to free market money.


Again, I weep.

If there is sufficient profit to be made counterfeiting coins, be they collectible or free market money, someone will do it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11344599 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Mr.Al said:
I mean, shells, WTF?!?


I weep for you.

Hopefully your ability to recognize fake money is better than your ability to recognize satire.



It is good that you do not support monopoly money.

Government control of the money supply is a dangerous thing that has historically led to tyranny.


I do not make light of this matter friend.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11344618 -

You must be the life of any party you attend.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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