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OfflineEllis Dee
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The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01.
    #546889 - 02/10/02 08:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

For eight years Clinton gutted the CIA, the FBI, the NSA and our military.

In 1993 Bin Laden Blew up the WTC; Clinton did not kill him. In 1996 Bin Laden blew up US assets in Saudi A; Clinton Did not kill him. In 1998 Bin Laden Blew up two US embassies in Africa; Clinton did not kill him. In 2000 Bin Landen Blew up the USS Cole and Clinton did not kill him.

The only time Clinton even made a lame attempt to neutralize this guy was during the perjury scandal, and he only did that to keep his Grand Jury testimony off the front page of the news.

Is 9/11/01 Clinton's true legacy?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #546905 - 02/10/02 08:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You say in 1993 that Bin Laden blew up the World trade center? As far as I know there are no direct links of bin laden to this terrorist attack. Even unclassified reports say that they knew of the terrorists living here, had phone taps of them, and knew of their connections to worldwide terrorists. For anyone to blame this on Bin laden now, would be concievably easy, and wrong, basing your trust in the FBI and other intelligence who were investigating these 1993 terrorists.


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #547181 - 02/11/02 12:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

This is all old news. We all know Clinton is the reasom the world though that the US was weak. At the time, they were right, we were, because we had the weakest leader in US history. He is the reason we were attacked. He is the reason many of my friends are dead. Now is not the time to lay blame. Now is the time to fight. We now have a leader who understands this, a real leader. The first real leader we have had in 12 years. We have the right man for the job. He will get it done.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: superpimp]
    #547240 - 02/11/02 01:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think Dubya is a good leader. I think he is a puppet for big oil and other corporate interests. He doesn't even seem to be real strong on the 'Pro Life' front as evidenced by his stem cell cave in. I don't think Dubya has any real strong beliefs. I also think he entire administration will be another big watch the polls and do what they say type masquarade, instead of principled leadership.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblebivalve
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #547462 - 02/11/02 04:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Bill Clinton didn't create a cult-like form of
Islam that exploits poverty and hatred and
directs it at the United States. He didn't do
that.

And he didn't start the Gulf War. And all
that stuff. Jimmy Carter said it would set
back Middle East peace by 20 years. And
maybe it did.

And the CIA and the FBI and NSA all failed
totally. They had no idea that it was coming.
I don't think that making any of those three
intelligence agencies bigger would have been
able to stop it. Or putting more money into
them. Or maybe they could have. I don't know.

Killing Bin Laden wouldn't have stopped the
terrorist attacks in September. The might
have even made them bigger. And this huge
"War on Terrorism" hasn't destroyed
international terrorism. Because the kind of
war The George Bush wants to fight isn't
the kind of war to put an end to terrorism.

So, despite all that, I guess I agree. The
Bill Clinton didn't seem to do anything. As
far as I know. Two embassies bombings
and an attack on an American ship. And
just a couple of air strikes.

The Bill Clinton didn't do anything. And The
George Bush isn't really doing anything now
except stirring things up.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #547552 - 02/11/02 08:11 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

****I don't think Dubya is a good leader. I think he is a puppet for big oil and other corporate interests****

It's easy to say that. Didn't help Enron...did it?

****He doesn't even seem to be real strong on the 'Pro Life' front as evidenced by his stem cell cave in****

How did he "CAVE" in?

****I don't think Dubya has any real strong beliefs. ****

I beg to differ. I think he has a strong belief in treating the tax payers as americans..not money makers.. It's too bad the Klinton policies are making that difficult

****I also think he entire administration will be another big watch the polls and do what they say type masquarade, instead of principled leadership. ****

I think you're sadly mistaken. I would like to know where he looked at the olls before making a decision.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #547642 - 02/11/02 10:36 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The only hope for America is war. Sorry, I had to say that, but if the u.s. does not seriously start conquering some more countries, then they are going to fall into a second world status, the decline will begin at about 2020. Sorry, but that is just what an imperialistic economy is based on. So, Bush does care about his people!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547704 - 02/11/02 11:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

****but if the u.s. does not seriously start conquering some more countries, then they are going to fall into a second world status***

eh? What are you basing this on? Even though we are going through a recession our economy is the strongest in the world right now. I find it funny how this is coming from a guy who just discovered that inflation is a bad thing.

And what will plunge us into a 2nd world nation and who will be a 1st world nation..Europe?..don't think so.

***Sorry, but that is just what an imperialistic economy is based on.****

Our economy is based on Capitalism...and it's done this country pretty good so far

****So, Bush does care about his people! ****

I think he does..sure.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #547714 - 02/11/02 12:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

One time, me and you spoke and I told you that sometimes I speak about things on the internet that are generally not my opinion, but of others who do not have the interernet, so I post for them. Make sense? So, you see then, I was basically drawing attention to my graph, which is an original piece by myself, depicting the flooding of the economy by bush's lowering interest rates. resulting in inflation, because their is more money. So this is a bad thing, but bush won the election, so that was for every stupid motherfucker who voted for them. I took their view point and showed them the long view. That is the general cycle that our economy experiences through more money, it seems as if the class system is degrading, helping the poor, but in fact it is not. Class sytems barely change, but their is opportunity for few, but for lower class, this does not help. Because their class has stayed the same, while products prices have risen. This a very simple theory created by myself, once I have studied further maybe I can state a real solution to the problem.

As far as imperialism goes, many countries have considered us to be an imperialistic country, as well as a capitilist country, a country can be both. Which we are.

And Europe already has a higher currency exchange then us, because? They are more imperialistic.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547894 - 02/11/02 02:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

****And Europe already has a higher currency exchange then us, because? They are more imperialistic. ****

Your wrong: Euro Dollar EURO 1.0939 ie:1 Euro dollar equals 0.91 US Dollars

This wrong aside our purchasing power is more and that's what makes the difference because Britain's money is worth about 1 1/2 times as much as ours but our Purchasing power is ALOT higher..maybe 10 times.

Personally i couldn't care less if other countries think we're Imperialistic...most countries aren't like the US...Capitalist


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #547926 - 02/11/02 03:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, I meant to say Britain, not europe. I guess you realized that. I don't know much about the Euro, except that it is supposed to drop in value soon. Purchasing power does'nt effect per capita income does it? That's what an exchange rate portrays most of the time right? So if Britain's pound is 1 1/2 times our dollar, then they have a better economy, better per capita income, all due to the imperialistic past, and how a country can benefit for centuries from the conquering of one country. What exactly would a country be purchasing anyways? I think china's purchasing power would be higher then ours, is'nt that the benefit of communism?
Alot of countries are partially capitilist, even china. So my final point is that if we do not conquer any more countries like Iraq, then we are going to keep spiralling down., if we were to conquer Iraq that would be imperialistic, not capitilistic. Was not conquering the indians imperialistic?


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #547978 - 02/11/02 04:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

****I also think he entire administration will be another big watch the polls and do what they say type masquarade, instead of principled leadership. ****

I think you're sadly mistaken. I would like to know where he looked at the olls before making a decision.



Stem cell research! He permitted funding for stem cell research ased on what the polls told him to do, trying to please all the people instead of being principled one way or the other.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #547993 - 02/11/02 04:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

****I don't know much about the Euro, except that it is supposed to drop in value soon****

I didn't hear this. I heard that the English are reluctant to switch to the Euro because it will devalue their money

****Purchasing power does'nt effect per capita income does it?****

I guess it could indirectly but i'm not really sure but not immediatly

****So if Britain's pound is 1 1/2 times our dollar, then they have a better economy, better per capita income****

better Per capita..their growth this year was better than the US but we are in a recession. They are around 4-5% right now....we usually average that or higher. Remember the bigger the country doesn't mean higher growth, it takes more to get that 1% of 270, 00,00 than it does for 50,00,00. With that said the richest country per capita (at least it used to be) is Kuwait. But they have zero purchasing power..relativly speaking

****What exactly would a country be purchasing anyways? I think china's purchasing power would be higher then ours, is'nt that the benefit of communism? ****

No the US has the highest purchasing power in the world..it's based on the economy as a whole..i don't have my global econ book with me at the moment or i would give you some #'s. There is no benefit of communism. There isn't a country today that has prospered under communism. China could be the most powerful country if they'd just let their people do their potential.

****Alot of countries are partially capitilist, even china****

Partially capitalist is like being a little pregnant...the closet to capitalist is Hong Kong...

****So my final point is that if we do not conquer any more countries like Iraq, then we are going to keep spiralling down., ****

And I ask this. What do you base it on..just answer this

****if we were to conquer Iraq that would be imperialistic, not capitilistic. ***

No it would make us an aggressive expantionist country...we aren't either..unless we're provoked..definatly not an expansionist country

****Was not conquering the indians imperialistic? ****

Imperialism is a system in which a country rules other countries, sometimes having used force to obtain power over them...I think what happened to the idians was wrong, however if your asking if we are imperialists now? Then no..China is ans England was.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #548018 - 02/11/02 04:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I read so much, that I never know where I hear things from, I could have dreamed them. Like I said though the Euro is probraly going to drop in value.
Is purchasing power a countries government purchasing power, or a countries corporate purchasing power average?
And yes, there will be a time when china prospers from communism. When PRC took control they made the country able to defend itself from the u.s. Then they protected their assests. Much Oil. If they last till the day that u.s. deplets it's own oil resources, then we will probraly buy from them. Thus making them and their allies Iraq, and Iran very wealthy. Whether they will be able to raise the standard of living with this government money who knows? But look at Cuba, they are communist, and have benefited from communism.
Your right though, partially capitilist is only working toward capitilism, china used to be capitilist. But when extreme situations are called, then extreme measures need to be taken , such as communism, all resources are pooled into war. So when the war is over, then the country can return to capitilistism.
Also I base the conjectures on a spiraling economy from nothing really, just guesses.
I guess China was imperialistic, with their long history of wars, we had the same history of wars also. Who knows which country actually shed more blood.
Of course noone is actually imperialistic now, that is a history term no country wants to be associated, and how is china imperialistic now?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #548675 - 02/12/02 09:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Didn't he limit the stem research to those stem cells that were on hand?..If so i see no conflict


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #548678 - 02/12/02 09:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

****Like I said though the Euro is probraly going to drop in value. *****

i ask again...based on what?

****Is purchasing power a countries government purchasing power, or a countries corporate purchasing power average****

It's more about credit

****And yes, there will be a time when china prospers from communism****

Millatarily maybe....Not economically

****If they last till the day that u.s. deplets it's own oil resources, then we will probraly buy from them. ****

we don't use our own oil...blame the liberals for that one.

****But look at Cuba, they are communist, and have benefited from communism.****

What? The only thing that Cuba excells in is literacy..that's it.  That country is pathetic economically.  Cuba has the potential to be a nice vacation spot and trade partner but Castro won't let that happen (it's ironic that we won't deal with Cuba but we will with China)

***china used to be capitilist***

They were never capitalist

****Also I base the conjectures on a spiraling economy from nothing really, just guesses****

That clears things up now..i was wondering what you were basing it on

****and how is china imperialistic now? ***

Maybe someone from Taiwan can answer that one :wink:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #548851 - 02/12/02 01:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

W hich book did you find and read about china's past economies? I am curious, because I could be wrong but, alot of what I read mentions an economy unregulated based on trade that can be more considered bartering then trade, because there was no universal currency, only lumps of silver, this could be very hard to control and tax under a communist government, expecially since no government of china has been completely able to remove capitilist corruption.

Also I have read alot about cuba's economy. There are about 6 books you can find in any library that are all written by american authors, and obviously pro castro. They speak of an economy based on spanish and american aristocrats, fighting over the same rights to govern. I can catch you up from about 1912 (spanish american war?, not sure on the year), to about 1985, when people have stopped writing about the economy, and statistics are based on cuban diplomats (which obviously cannot be trusted). After we removed spanish rule, we instituted our own government, in which american companies came in and bought up cuba. 70% of all cuba's farmland was owned by United Fruit, an american company. While about all of cuba's lower class was living in huts, without hospitols, schools, and a very low life expectancy rate. You can imagine that their lower class was very large from all of these wealthy american companies being able to "push" around natives. Remember their were alot of "Mulattos" half black half cuban, and alot of blacks, I don't remember america ever looking out for blacks before the "Civil Rights Movement" (1960's). So, maybe second generation could become middle class, after a generation! That would not appeal to me. Then you had the revolution, in which Castro made a speech upon his country breaking him out of jail. This speech was based on "industrialization". In my opinion, no country can industrialize fully in a capitilist economy, too much disorganization. People are probraly not Pro-Castro though. But there economy did benefit from communism, fully industrialized with an equal currency to the u.s. now.

You can hardly consider Taiwan to be imperialized by China. We sell arms to taiwan to keep their stated freedom. The only thing is that we do not sell them state of the art weaponry. (china/taiwan secret government espionage dealings, at least that is what our government is afraid of). Taiwan also spys on us, so even though they are democratic, anti communist, they are not pro u.s.. Maybe when the day comes that China reclaims this terroritory that they have stated is their own, then you can say they are imperialist over taiwan.


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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #550863 - 02/14/02 05:58 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm curious as to where you're getting your information about Cuba, most of the pro-Castro sites(admitedly I haven't picked up any books, but I've got some time on my hands if you'd care to make some suggestions) simply gloss over the period immediately before Castro(and slightly before Batista when things were vastly improving). I found a loverly site(provided by a biased source, the US state dept) that refutes some of the stuff that you've said. It has actual numbers that seem to go against what you've been saying. Please read it here. BTW Cuba has for quite some time had a greater number of whites than blacks(although mullattos do agreedly make up the majority). Also don't forget that Cuba got a lot of assitance from the Soviet Union until its collapse, so information that does not take into account the collapse of the USSR is essentially worthless.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: MokshaMan]
    #551111 - 02/14/02 12:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I read the site and it really does'nt contradict anything I said.
Also, Cuba's economy is based on sugar. I think they are the highest exporter in the world, and when Castro took office productiona and sales were alot higher, even if the IMF has none of thes evidence, private institutes can make their own guesses. It is not uncommon for a communist country to hide profits.
Which numbers in specific were you speaking of?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Clinton Legacy is 9/11/01. [Re: nugsarenice]
    #551366 - 02/14/02 04:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

*****It is not uncommon for a communist country to hide profits.****

It's not uncommon for a communist country to self destruct either (ask. Russia (U.S.S.R.)...the human factor is never taken into consideration in these regimes...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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