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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: JT]
    #10803910 -

justin_thyme said:
i should say, the upper class will be hit the hardest.




if I take $3000 from a man that has a million, it's not that big a hit
if I hake $50 from someone that has $50, it's a much harder hit

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10803978 -

they should just take that $3000 and give it to the bums that need it, then they won't need health care in the first place


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #10803997 -

Yep, nothing cures hepatitis like $3000 worth of whisky and hookers


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zouden]
    #10804032 -

$3000 could get a person a job or start an internet buisness. 

people living next to rats...w/e man.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10804063 -

Prisoner#1 said:
justin_thyme said:
i should say, the upper class will be hit the hardest.




if I take $3000 from a man that has a million, it's not that big a hit
if I hake $50 from someone that has $50, it's a much harder hit



How about if you take $35,000 from the man with a million and nothing from the man with $50? 

Why the fuck is zouden so all fired riled up about the health care debate in the US and why do we accept his statements about how it works in Australia as authoritative?


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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10804374 -

Quote:
if I take $3000 from a man that has a million, it's not that big a hit
if I hake $50 from someone that has $50, it's a much harder hit



Your math is a bit off...

If I take a million dollars from a man that has only a million dollars, it is just as big of a hit as if I take fifty dollars from a man that only has fifty dollars.  Taking 100% from somebody is taking 100% from somebody, regardless of how much they have.

Likewise, taking $3000 from a man that has $1000000 is not that big of a hit, just like taking $0.15 (fifteen cents) from a man that only has $50 is not that big of a hit.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: Seuss]
    #10804884 -

Seuss said:
Quote:
if I take $3000 from a man that has a million, it's not that big a hit
if I hake $50 from someone that has $50, it's a much harder hit



Your math is a bit off...

If I take a million dollars from a man that has only a million dollars, it is just as big of a hit as if I take fifty dollars from a man that only has fifty dollars.  Taking 100% from somebody is taking 100% from somebody, regardless of how much they have.

Likewise, taking $3000 from a man that has $1000000 is not that big of a hit, just like taking $0.15 (fifteen cents) from a man that only has $50 is not that big of a hit.



i was under the impression that it would be a progressive tax based in income verses a static tax. so maybe $250,000 income + get hit with 5%, 100-249,000 get 3.5%, 50-99,000 get 2.5%, etc.

so the upper class does end up paying more, and a higher percentage, because "they have more to spare."

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: JT]
    #10804914 -

> i was under the impression that it would be a progressive tax

What I quoted was the reverse of a progressive tax: 0.3% for the rich person and 100% for the poor person.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: Seuss]
    #10804951 -

you're right. the example you gave though was a static tax though, right? .03% for both the rich guy and the poor guy.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806003 -

zappaisgod said:
How about if you take $35,000 from the man with a million and nothing from the man with $50? 




How about you stop pulling figures out of your ass? If you're concerned that your tax is going to go up by so much, prove it.

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zouden]
    #10806162 -

How about you pay better attention.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10657927#10657927

There's a link there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/health/policy/11health.html?_r=1

It says this:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — House Democrats will ask the wealthiest Americans to help pay for overhauling the health care system with a $550 billion income tax increase, the chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee said Friday.

Representative Charles B. Rangel will seek an income tax increase on the wealthy.

The proposal calls for a surtax on individuals earning at least $280,000 in adjusted gross income and couples earning more than $350,000, said the chairman, Representative Charles B. Rangel of New York.

It would generate about $550 billion over 10 years to pay about half the cost of the legislation, Mr. Rangel said. As the proposal envisions it, the rest of the cost would be covered by lower spending on Medicare, the government health plan for the elderly, and other health care savings.



I did some calculations of my own to get the average $35,000.  They are at the first link I provided.  Why don't you stop worrying about American health care so much, Ozzie?  You don't know what you're talking about and it is none of your business.


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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806215 -

Quote:
zappaisgod said:It would generate about $550 billion over 10 years to pay about half the cost of the legislation, Mr. Rangel said. As the proposal envisions it, the rest of the cost would be covered by lower spending on Medicare, the government health plan for the elderly, and other health care savings.



You said someone making $1mil would be paying $35,000 in new taxes, and also that $35,000 would be the average increase in taxes for the top 1% of taxpayers? Which is it, and what formula did you use to come up with that?

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: THC Titan]
    #10806266 -

That isn't what I said, is it?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10657927#10657927

Quote:
There were about 80M returns filed for 2008.  The income levels discussed represent around 2% of that number.  That means that 1.6M personal income tax paying entities will be forced to pay, on average, $35,000 each per annum.  On top of the fact that we already pay most of the taxes as it is.




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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806372 -

From the article:
Quote:
But emerging from daylong committee negotiations Friday, Mr. Rangel said the income surtax would take effect in 2011 and begin at 1 percent of adjusted gross income — earnings before deductions like those for mortgage interest and charitable contributions — and would apply to individuals earning more than $280,000 and couples earning more than $350,000.
The surtax would be increased for individuals earning more than $400,000 and couples earning more than $500,000, and step up again for individuals earning over $800,000 and couples earning above $1 million. The precise extent of these increases has not been announced.



This could mean that the surtax starts at 1%, increases to 1.5% and then again to 2% for people earning more than $800k. In which case someone earning $1.6m will pay (1,600,000*0.02)=$32,000. Fair enough.
Quote:
Why don't you stop worrying about American health care so much, Ozzie?  You don't know what you're talking about and it is none of your business.



Funny, I don't hear you saying that to Phred. And I actually do know what I'm talking about, most of the time. And when I don't, I make an effort to find out. Like I just did earlier when I asked you to provide a source for that $35,000 figure.

Anyway, I find it strange that they'd put the surtax on the highest brackets. Our Medicare Levy is set at 1.5%, for incomes below $100k and 2% for those above. I do agree with you here, it seems unnecessary to put such a heavy emphasis on the top earners.

You really do have incompetent congressmen don't you? I thought it was all empty cynicism but it's becoming clear that you have a bunch of morons in the Capitol. On both sides.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zouden]
    #10806462 -

I don't see Phred making one tenth the posts you make.  Yea, verily, not one twentieth.

By the way, that was Rangel saying those things, a serial lying fuck.  I did my own calculations based on how many taxpayers, an estimate, and how much money they were going to be forced to come up with.  Those were the Dems figures.  I, myself, am quite sure the actual numbers will be much higher.  For instance, the idea that they can squeeze an equal amount ($50B per annum) out of medicare/medicaid savings is criminally insane.


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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zouden]
    #10806486 -

Why you would find it odd that Barry is a "fuck the rich white guy" President is an almost ostrich like naivete.  He hates white people and he hates rich people.


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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806499 -

I don't see Obama's influence in this bill. It was written by congressmen, was it not?

Edit: and where does this bill disproportionately tax white people? I didn't realise there was a racism clause.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (08/05/09 04:51 PM)

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zouden]
    #10806533 -

zouden said:
I don't see Obama's influence in this bill. It was written by congressmen, was it not?

Edit: and where does this bill disproportionately tax white people? I didn't realise there was a racism clause.



:rofl2:

You really gotta stop.  Yes, it was written by Congresspeople from the Party that he runs. 

That isn't what I said.  I said he hates white people.  I didn't say he taxes white people.  Although he does.


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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806551 -

Quote:
I don't see Phred making one tenth the posts you make.



I think maybe that's not the reason you don't say the same to him...

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Re: single payer only healthcare [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10806570 -

You're implying that if it were a different Democrat president pushing for healthcare reform that the bill would have been better? On what basis do you make that claim? This bill is clearly different to what he wanted. Remember he was advocating universal healthcare (which this isn't). This bill was not written by him.

And is there any reason for you to say that he hates white people, or is that just a red herring you threw in there?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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