Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
"healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right"
    #5256665 - 02/02/06 09:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i've heard this a few times. for believers:

if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights?
if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights?
if you do not have a home, who is violating your rights?


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5256875 - 02/02/06 10:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Collectivist-think. Certain things have arisen because of technology and they think it is necessary for all people to have access to these things - even if it means making other people foot the bill for it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5257139 - 02/02/06 10:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i've heard this a few times. for believers:

if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights?
if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights?
if you do not have a home, who is violating your rights?




Thank you.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 months, 24 days
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: JesusChrist]
    #5258187 - 02/03/06 04:48 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

> if you do not have a job, who is violating your rights?

You are. Now give me a television, bitch, so I can watch Springer and Oprah.

(sarcasm for the humor impaired)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5258771 - 02/03/06 12:50 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

no takers? is annapurna1 right? have the right wing crazies really taken over?


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,750
Loc: Classified
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5259303 - 02/03/06 03:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

if you do not have healthcare, who is violating your rights?



If you do not have healthcare, then...? Too bad? Darwinism is dated.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5259328 - 02/03/06 03:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
no takers? is annapurna1 right? have the right wing crazies really taken over?




I think more accurately, the utopian idealists have given up arguing. The bong is more important.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: bukkake]
    #5260101 - 02/03/06 07:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

If you do not have healthcare, then...? Too bad? Darwinism is dated.

if you want to address the question, the thread's still open.

is healthcare, or a job, or a home, or education a "basic human right"?

if you lack one of these, who is responsible for violating your rights?


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,788
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5260148 - 02/03/06 07:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Define "basic human right" first.

Are these rights that are inalienable in nature, like Natural Law? Or are they "rights" that have been agreed upon by some constitutional body?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
    #5260228 - 02/03/06 08:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i've heard it referred to as an inalienable right.

and what other kind of right can there be, anyway? if it's not inalienable, it's not a right. it's something else... a privilege, entitlement, desert, or idulgence maybe... but not a right.

while i believe in inalienable rights, i'm going to split some of the other libertarians here and say that i'm not sure that one can prove they exist. what i will say is that if rights exist, they are inalienable, and that anything that is not inalienable should not be called a right.

does anyone here believe that healthcare or employment is an inalienable right?


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,788
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5260236 - 02/03/06 08:22 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

does anyone here believe that healthcare or employment is an inalienable right?

I don't.

That isn't to say they aren't "good things"....but certainly not inalienable rights.

In fact I would say there is only one "basic human right" and that is the right to live and live freely. All else stems from that single right.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,788
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
    #5260248 - 02/03/06 08:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

On the other hand I do think there are "rights" which are not basic or inalienable - those of citizens' rights. These are the "rights" that are agreed upon in a constitution or law of some sort. They are not human rights - because they do not apply to all humans - but they are rights to the citizens of a country because within that country's framework they can not be taken away.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: trendal]
    #5260256 - 02/03/06 08:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i wouldn't call those 'rights' though. you're either talking about a law that recognizes a pre-existing right, or one which establishes some legal protection above and beyond real rights - one which almost always requires the violation of real, inalienable rights to enforce.


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,788
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5260266 - 02/03/06 08:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In my experience they are still referred to as "rights" because, as I said, they can not be taken away within a country which recognizes them in its law.

Say, the "right" to legal representation, or to a fair trial, for example.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5262553 - 02/04/06 03:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Silversoul]
    #5262717 - 02/04/06 03:54 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.




Oh my God. What happened to my fellow heartless libertarian? Paradigm? Is that really you?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5262751 - 02/04/06 04:08 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
They're not "basic human rights," but they are necessary for surviving in a modern society, and compassion dictates that we should ensure, through whatever means necessary, that they are readily accessible to anyone who needs them.




Oh my God. What happened to my fellow heartless libertarian? Paradigm? Is that really you?



Note that I did not say that they should necessarily be provided by the government(nor am I saying they shouldn't). Many people have made the argument that a free market would provide these things most effectively. I happen to disagree, but nonetheless, the above statement is not necessarily in conflict with libertarianism.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Silversoul]
    #5262774 - 02/04/06 04:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

TRAITOR!!!    :smirk:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: wilshire]
    #5267059 - 02/05/06 08:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

the notion that neither of those is a basic human right has a direct corollary ..a person should not be allowed to live if the state cannot use him/her...for example..if your sick..and your labour value cannot cover the cost of medical treatment..then why should you be allowed to live??...why not simply euthanize your ass and harvest whatever spare parts.. and/or sell you off as bars of soap??...if thats not naziism..then i dont know what is...in either case..if we are not to tolerate it..then at the very least healthcare has to be a right..and if we have to find economic justification for the cost of that healthcare..then so does a job...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: "healthcare/employment/shelter/etc. is a basic human right" [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5267459 - 02/05/06 10:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

the notion that neither of those is a basic human right has a direct corollary ..a person should not be allowed to live if the state cannot use him/her

how are the chances of you explaining this leap of logic? or of answering the question posed in the title post of the thread?


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* "torture-lite" and human rights after 9/11 Edame 767 4 06/28/03 10:08 AM
by Cornholio
* Human Rights violations at Guantanamo Bay
( 1 2 all )
Swami 3,022 37 12/20/03 09:05 AM
by mntlfngrs
* outsourced jobs, a crime against humanity afoaf 354 0 10/06/04 08:26 PM
by afoaf
* Police basically...
( 1 2 all )
Cracka_X 1,744 22 05/15/03 09:35 PM
by atomikfunksoldier
* The War on Drugs is Forcing Human Evolution icesickill 890 14 02/27/03 07:00 AM
by Azmodeus
* $10 milllion for one terrorist or for a homeless shelter Swami 719 9 06/15/04 07:09 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* the healthcare time bomb...
Annapurna1
858 8 11/21/04 07:37 PM
by Great_Satan
* THE CONTROL PARADIGM - How to Control People chodamunky 592 3 10/17/02 09:54 PM
by chodamunky

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,528 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 18 queries.