zouden said:

I guess this just proves my point really. Of course Mary wasn't a virgin. That's patently false. Everyone agrees that Jesus probably was a real guy, but only Christians believe he was born to an immaculate conception. It's far more likely that Mary got knocked up by some guy. There's a large disconnect between reality and the fiction that Christians have constructed, and I think the same applies to teenage abstinence programs.

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I wouldn't be surprised if all of those Bible people, including the "virgin" () Mary and Jesus, never even factually existed, and something in my gut, for some reason or another, tells me that they didn't.

Poid said:

I wouldn't be surprised if all of those Bible people, including the "virgin" () Mary and Jesus, never even factually existed, and something in my gut, for some reason or another, tells me that they didn't.

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blewmeanie said:

If Christians would drop the whole "virgin" thing, it would actually lend more credence to their claim from a Jewish perspective.

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Come on. I'm not going to read the rest of your post if you make a blatant lie like that straight out. How many countries have banned religion? North Korea, and...? What about the other communist countries, like Cuba and China? Because they've got a pretty big religious population.

I'm sorry dude, but you're wrong. Atheists are far more tolerant than religious folk. And religious intolerance is generally more violent than atheist intolerance.

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When atheists start burning Christians in the name of atheism, I may reconsider my stance.

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Reporting from Zhongxiang, Nicholas Kristof gives a real-life account: "She never broke when she was tortured with beatings and electrical shocks, and even when she was close to death she refused to disclose the names of members of her congregation or sign a statement renouncing her Christian faith. As she was being battered in one room, her son was tortured in the next so that each could hear the other's screams, as encouragement to betray their church.
Dozens of members of her church are still imprisoned, and those free are under tight scrutiny.

Christians are tightly controlled by the Religious Affairs Bureau of the Chinese government. "Police state China" are out to hurt and extinguish Christians from the country. The happy face China image of Bibles sold in the marketplace is one scene. But the damaged and crippled bodies of believers elsewhere is just as much a part of present-day China. Hundreds of Chinese Christians are in ‘re-education through labor’ camps."

Secret Communist Party documents say approvingly that 60,000 Chinese were killed, either executed or shot by police while fleeing, between 1998 and 2001. That amounts to 15,000 a year, which suggests that 97 percent of the world's executions take place in China. And it's well documented that scores of Christians . . . have died in police custody."

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Of course Mary wasn't a virgin. That's patently false.

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The virgin birth is not mentioned in Mark, the earliest of the four gospels, nor does Paul mention it in many of his letters.

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It was likely added later due to a misinterpretation of a verse from Isaiah, saying that the messiah would be born of a "young woman," the word for young woman being misinterpreted to mean virgin.

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One of the main requirements for the Jewish "messiah" is that he be from the line of King David, and 'Jesus' (according to biblical genealogy) was only a part of that if his father was Mary's husband David.

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Silversoul said:

zouden said:

In the perfect world, abstinence works 100%, but so would a condom.

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And in the real world, abstinence is only 99.999% effective.

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If you believe God exists and that he created the Universe and that he is carrying and wants a relationship with man, then the idea of him taking human form to interact with man and experience life from man's perspective is not only a possible option but God's logical course of action.

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Lakefingers said:

The Bible doesn't promote. Neither does God. People do.

Historically many more people have promoted killing due interpretations of the Bible than for atheist causes. Historically atheist's hands are quite clean.

If you read The Bible (have you done this recently) you'll find much more killing than a few hundred. You'll find much genocide and slaughtering of peoples that makes the Soviet genocide pale in comparison (relative to world populations).

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if your wife is raped you CAN MURDER HER

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Arghhhh said:

Volumes of reporting support the reality that widespread torture, maiming and killing of Christians is taking place.

This isn't even talking about the Cultural Revolution which killed millions for not conforming to the strict Atheist ideals of the Communist Regime.


These Wonderfully tolerant atheist states, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and others killed over 100 million people during the 20th Century. Refusing to renounce your faith was frequently a capital crime. The fact that religious groups still exist in many of them, and that some have even grown doesn't mean they aren't viciously persecuted. If your going to make that argument then I guess Nero's burning of Christians at the stake and feeding them to Lions in Rome was also an example of tolerance, since the Church grew in spite of it.


So a christian politely knocking on your door to talk about God is intolerant but Atheists sending Christians to re-education camps is tolerant?

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And the 'Lord of the Rings' is a historical thesis proving that Middle Earth did indeed, exist.

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You're confusing persecution of Christians with persecution of religion. Of course there are places you can be killed for being Christian. But the article you quoted didn't mention persecution of Buddhists or Taoists (the most prominent religions in China), did it?

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your argument that atheist states like the Soviet Union killed 100 million people is irrelevant unless you can show how many of them were killed because they were religious.

There is absolutely no way you can argue that more people have been killed in the name of atheism than in the name of God. This is quite clearly ridiculous.

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Religion appeals to the primitive, violent side of humanity. The sooner we grow out of it the better.

the idea of having the person making the decision whether or not I go out to fight and risk my life think that when I die I will live for ever in bliss.  This delusion can justify a lot of unjustifiable shit and has.

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A goodly amount of biblical narrative incorporates Hellenistic mythic themes. And people wonder why Jews with an already ancient tradition did not and do not want to embrace pagan notions of Deity taking flesh

Most of those multitudes just don't see the Jesus stories in perspective with religions of antiquity. All they know is what they were taught by other non-scholars without perspective.

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So Atheists are tolerant because they only kill Christians? Is the Atheist interpretation of tolerance really that you only persecute minorities you outnumber or can get away with persecuting? That's a pretty cowardly morality.

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You haven't been so particular in your criticism. Its relevant because it shows that the most brutal regimes, have been Atheist ones,

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Many "Christian" societies have done terrible things in order to expand borders, for economic gain or power, but in each circumstance there were Christians challenging them, and in the end it was the realization that this activity was contrary to Christian principles that ended them.

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