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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: mirrorsaww]
    #858886 -

where are they to be found? vatican city dude. the originals? well, they fall apart like everything else.
but every time they start to fall apart, the church takes them and copies them word for word and places them back in the vaults for safekeeping for the next 500 years or so. they have never been lost. never been changed. and that's just a historical fact. the gospels and epistles were all written by the apostles or close followers of the apostles...and they have been saved ever since. but how can i convince you? i can't.

you could also see a dinsaur bone and calim that the evolutionist created it to prove evolution....if you don't want to believe something, you never will. the only fact is that people doubt.
me, i just study it all, find the most positive influence that's makes the most sense...and follow it.
if you have no trust in anything, then your life will be miserable. at least, that's what i've found.
lol, geez! you can say that goverments have changed history on that note! yeah, that's it...rome never existed, greece always ruled the world...and africa was a big zoo....but then aliens came and messed us all up. but the govenment doesn't want you to know that...so they changed history. doubt breeds doubt. and really, it doesn't matter. i will die. you will die...and then we'll all know how and why.
BUT I'M RIGHT neener neener :tongue: :grin: 


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
    #858902 -

I like the fact that many people can still identify with a 2000 year old book. I think it's kind of uplifting that we were still thinking the same kinds of thoughts back then (searching for truth and so on)...and that we still reach the same conclusions to this day (love thy neighbour).

However I find it a bit of a hassle to sift through all the bullshit to find the good stuff...especially when there are a lot of books around today that communicate the message a lot more clearly.

I just see it as very narrow minded to say that the bible (or any other book for that matter) is the ONLY truth...I can see no reason why anybody would believe that.

What I basically believe is that there is no truth that cannot be found internally.


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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #858907 -

hehe, whiterastahippie, you really are something else. :smile:  I gotta hand it to you for keeping strong faith in face of adversity.  I still consider it stifling and closed-minded to hold on to any one belief too strongly.  But, hey....whatever works for you, man.  If it makes you happy, then all the more power to ya.  Sclorch made a good point in another thread, though.  Basically, that you can read into a holy scripture without actually subscribing to the religion that embraces it.  I think that's one of the points I was trying to make.  I am not without beliefs, I am not without love (I guess...), but I will always try to keep an open mind about other possible beliefs.  That way I can continue to learn, expand, enjoy, and understand the beliefs of others.  The Bible is full of great and interesting beliefs, none of which I hold on to too strongly.  So are other holy scriptures, and so are many of the people in this forum.  Peace to you all, and keep your mind open to infinite possibilities. :smile: :tongue: :grin: 


--------------------
Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
www.drugsense.org

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
    #858958 -

thanks. i don't have faith though. my God does, and he let'sm e use it.
my problem is i'm a horrible typeist, i can't explain myself on paper or on computer...i can in real life, but that's different...i type something, and then people try to repeat back what they heard, and it's totally not what i mean....
eh, i think i'm leaving the shroomery. i don't want people to get a bad impression of me because i can't type out what i mean. and then in trying to explain myself, i make matters more complicated and then get frusterated cause i can't get it out right...and then just end up looking like a total selfcentered prideful prick.
sigh. :grin: oh well, there's other places to be. maybe i'll drop in every now and again.

 


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #860470 -

In reply to:
BUT I'M RIGHT neener neener .


Humble ? You and an atheist are not so different after all. One says it surely exist god, the other says it surely don't, why both try to justify something that can't be proved ?
And please, don't get me wrong if i sounded harsh, sometimes i make too many direct questions.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #863127 -

where are they to be found? Vatican city dude. the originals? well, they fall apart like everything else. but every time they start to fall apart, the church takes them and copies them word for word and places them back in the vaults for safekeeping for the next 500 years or so. they have never been lost. never been changed. and that's just a historical fact.

You are talking utter nonsense. The Vatican DOES NOT HAVE "originals", and what they do have has not been copied word for word.

the gospels and epistles were all written by the apostles or close followers of the apostles...and they have been saved ever since. but how can i convince you? i can't.

What I said was that the orthodox claim of who wrote them is highly questionable, and this is without doubt true. I do not say they weren't written by companions of Jesus, just that it is uncertain.

How could you convince me?

evidence would be a good start...

If you believe this then that's fine. Many (probably most) biblical scholars would not agree with you.

you could also see a dinosaur bone and claim that the evolutionist created it to prove evolution....if you don't want to believe something, you never will. the only fact is that people doubt.

If I doubt the authorship of the Gospels then it's because there is good evidence to do so. There is nothing wrong with that kind of doubt. It's not equivalent to being too cynical to believe in anything.

me, i just study it all, find the most positive influence that's makes the most sense...and follow it.

Looking at the rubbish that you have come out with I have my doubts that you have "studied it all".

if you have no trust in anything, then your life will be miserable. at least, that's what I've found.

That doesn't mean you have to disconnect your brain!


There is disagreement about the time of the Gospels being written. Early dates given are typically in the region of 40-65 A.D. later dates suggested are about 70-100 A.D. The evidence for their authenticity is often given as being the writings of early Church Fathers such as Irenaeus (140-200 A.D.) and Eusebius (260-339 A.D.). Many people would consider these sources as unreliable. It could be suggested that they might be a little biased, Irenaeus was a Church propagandist (he wrote attacks on heresies) and perhaps there was an agenda to what he wrote on the subject of the Gospels.

The four Gospels are said to have gained full status as canonic literature in the latter part of the second century. The New Testament canon was of course not to be finally settled until the end of the fourth century.

The oldest surviving complete manuscripts of the Gospels are copies from the fourth century A.D. (there are small fragments from a slightly earlier time). The Vatican do possess one of them which is known as the "Codex Vaticanus". The Vatican has admitted that in it's restoration over the centuries "corrections" have been made. We can't be certain that this doesn't include significant alterations.

Even if they hadn't been altered we still couldn't know how close they are to the original, because the originals and all the early copies from the first couple of centuries don't exist any more.

It is very possible that the Gospels were put together from oral tradition and written sources by people who were not companions of Jesus.

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: mirrorsaww]
    #863362 -

Right on, I used to be a strong Christian, therefore I've been on both sides of the fence, and it befounds me as to how someone with the slightest shread of intellect can honestly believe and follow what started out to be a simple story.  The story of Jesus is, without a doubt, the greatest story ever told, but it is nothing more.  Try and picture yourself 2000 years ago, living under the control of the Roman Empire, for example.  Before the old and new testements were written, there was no ground law, and people feared death.  Know why? Because there was no such thing as commercial and organized religion.  So they thought heck, why don't we write a story about a mortal man who's father was a God, throw in stories of miracles he performed for proof, and basically, soundproof the thing off so that no one would ever question it (except of course, the facts of science).  They later threw in the story of Moses and the 10 commandments, because, look at it this way: they were killing two birds with one stone.  People were soon taught that if they behaved themselves and followed the 10 commandments, they would go to heaven, and not have to fear death.

:shocked:

I think the Christian Catholic religion is funny.  Funny how it contradicts itself and funny how it wouldn't exist if it weren't commercialized and corrupted by the giving of their followers' hard-earned cash.  Think about the passing of the collection plate. "Let us give thanks".  Where do you think the money goes?  Yes, toward the church, but yes, also toward the salary of the man preaching to you every sunday.  He doesn't practice religion for free.  Would "God" approve of churches and prayer groups collecting money and using his name as the cause? 


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"Soon they'll be breeding us like cattle!!!"

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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: Right_On_Time]
    #863395 -

Think about the passing of the collection plate...Where do you think the money goes?

The way money is handled in the Catholic Church has always made me sick. The priest lives in tax free luxury. The bishops and archbishops, etc., own multiple homes and cars. Meanwhile, some of the members of their church are living in near to absolute poverty, and yet they still generously donate their money to these people. If these so called "religious men" were pure in their religious motives, wouldn't they share their wealth and donate to charity? This doesn't appear to always be the case. The only difference between a religion and a money-sucking cult is the number of members and the extent of its acceptance. Spirituality is the way for me--nobody to lie to me and use me, and nobody to answer to except for the "God" within.


--------------------
Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
www.drugsense.org

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