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 psilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.
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 The Holy Bible... 
#857370 - 09/01/02 03:31 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see some people taking quotes from the Bible in here and treating them as if they are the final word, absolute. I feel the need to speak up about this. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the Bible. Although I've only read very little of it, I can say it's a good book, full of spiritually uplifting and meaningful words. However, two points need to be made. First, many of the stories in the Bible are largely symbolic. They are not meant to be taken literally. For instance, let's take the story of Adam and Eve, and the Fruit of Knowledge. This is simply a metaphorical representation of the power of man's intellect to cause destruction and to alter nature. Whoever wrote this story realized that man's intelligence would ultimately be his greatest downfall, and so wrote this story to illustrate this. Second point: the stories in the Bible have been told and retold over and over again. As you know, stories tend to get greatly distorted over time, and the version you hear is likely a far cry from the original. I find it rather disturbing that people think that Adam and Eve and The Immaculate Conception are factual events rather than fictionalized and metaphorical representations of someone's philosophy. Being religious and reading the Bible is all good, but these stories need to be read into a little more carefully...what you see is not always what you get.
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Edited by psilo25 (09/01/02 03:41 PM)
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 chodamunky
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#857392 - 09/01/02 03:40 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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but it's the Holy Bible, it has to be true... 
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psilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: chodamunky]
#857399 - 09/01/02 03:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh...yeah...huhI forgot 
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LiquidSmoke
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#857477 - 09/01/02 04:23 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I understand your insite.
I agree. It's sad how distorted the original scripture of the Bible has changed through politics and screwed up modern revisions.
The entire thing about taking stories literally or not. Glad you pointed that out. Many branches of Christianity differ based on which stories people take literally and which ones they don't. Very, very confusing IMHO.
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Anonymous
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 Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#857919 - 09/01/02 08:25 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have read it a few times, only to compare against the much earlier myths that most of the 'Passages' are culled from. but its no Authority on anything, save maybe how History is Written by those who Conquored last.
I'd like to add that the Bible is a good read, if you like difficult, abstract language. But its a mosaic of authors all writing at diffrent times in diffrent languages . Something must have been lost in the translation Ack, Im sure this 'Christan Thing' will pass eventually. 
-OoD
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whiterastahippie
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#857951 - 09/01/02 08:43 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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no offense...but most of you need to study your history a little bit more before making statements that are...not true?
the bible has been proved historically accurate. and most of it is yes...symbolic...and many translations are yes...messed up...but you see
wait, why am i even trying? lol, i'm sitting here talking to people who are going to chuckle and shake their heads saying, "you poor confused man" much like i did when i read what THEY wrote.
this is an arguement i can't win and shouldn't even enter...
i'll pray for ya. lol.  but remeber , saying things like that aren't going to change any christians mind about the bible, and to us, it IS the word of God. and so we quote it. but to some of us...those christians that have been around for two thousand years and have a deeper faith that yourlocalbaptist church....the bible is not the FINAL word on religion, because the bible never says so. not in one place does it say so. in fact, it says opposite.
but the point is...i believe the bible because it is a part of my religion, but for the first three hundred years of the christian church, there was no bible. just the jewish torah...so what did christians believe? what was taught directly by christ and passed on down to the apostles....but the apostles did write down themselves what happened and what they saw...so certain things you mentioned (the immaculate conception) weren't just stories passed down. they are facts written down by men who knew mary personally before she was taken up to heaven (no record of her death.)
peace.
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pattern
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#858098 - 09/01/02 10:25 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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> Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the Bible.
I do. The Bible isn't true, but the Bible is part of reality and human history and must be accounted for. It is a profound book!
The Bible contained a moral code and way of thought for an age that used it beneficially. I wonder if the time has come for a new moral code, for our age. But I doubt we'll ever have another Bible. There are many places and cultures in the world that still benefit from Good Christian teachings.
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infidelGOD
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#858137 - 09/01/02 11:25 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Bible is the word of God, but it's written in the language of Man.
The most important points are lost in the translation.
You know the saying: "The tao that can be written is not the true tao"
The same can apply to the bible.
If you want to know God, the bible is a good starting point but it will only take you as far as the limitations of human language allow.
Beyond that, it's just between you and God.
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mirrorsaww
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(the immaculate conception) weren't just stories passed down. they are facts
According to the geneology given in the Bible...
the apostles did write down themselves what happened and what they saw...
and what are these writings you talk of?
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psilo25
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LOL  I apologize up front if I offend anyone, but...come on! The immaculate conception? A historical fact? Hah! Please explain how a woman can give birth without ever engaging in sexual intercourse? It's simply not possible. It's a nice story and all, but that's about it. It's a piece of Christian mythology, much like Zeus and Hades are pieces of Greek mythology. I think most of us consider Greek mythology to be fiction, but those in ancient Greece believed in it just as strongly then as Christians believe in the Bible's mythology now. In a thousand years, Christian mythology will be treated just as Greek mythology is treated now. These are all just stories passed down from generation to generation as a means of explaining the essentially unexplainable. It's the strong holding of the belief that these stories are facts that lead to so much ignorance and society ills. These stories will evolve and change over time, giving rise to new faiths and religions, none of which are more or less valid than the ones before them. It's a continuous, ongoing process, and to hold on to any of them as absolute is to close your mind off from reality and new ideas. "Believe in nothing"
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
 
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#858327 - 09/02/02 05:24 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Aliens wrote the Bible to keep us in line.
As we became more intelligent, responsible beings we naturally learned to govern ourselves without the help of a moral handbook.... well, most of us.
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whiterastahippie
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: psilo25]
#858339 - 09/02/02 05:35 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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well, for people who have such smal minds that they can ONLY believe in religion, the world must be a confusing place. poor people.
well, for people who have such small minds that they can ONLY believe in science, the world most be a confusing place. poor people.
see, if you limit yourself to either one, you are just being a small minded fool. that's the way it is.
listen, many closed, small minded athiest have said that "God is dead" or "the twentieth century will be the end of religion as we know it." but it's so sad of any human being to read or hear those words and actually believe them. LOL...use your brain! look around! religion is larger now than ever before! they just completed a church is west africa that is now the largest church is the world! in the catholic church alone there are 1 billion people....that is one sixth of the worlds population. so if you think about muslims, buddhists, taoist, jews, protestants, catholics....you guys (athiest) are the minority. you always have been and always will be! lol that's why it doesn't really bother me when i hear people bash something about my religion. one, i know it's not true. and two....the minority will always have a need to console themselves.
so prove the immaculate conception is true? how about this...i could go to your house if you had a broken leg, put my hands of you, and possibly God wold heal you through me...instantly. and i could do with every tv camera in the world on me...and the whole world could watch your bone set itself and mend in a matter of seconds...but even if that was written down and recorded in every history book, it wouldn't matter. in two thousand years, they would say, " It's a nice story and all, but that's about it. It's a piece of Christian mythology, much like Zeus and Hades are pieces of Greek mythology. "
it doesn't matter what you prove. people will always doubt.
only when we know little things do we know anything; doubt grows with knowledge.
so really, i could argue and prove things to an athiest allllll day long. but i'm wasting my breath.  i'd rather be out helping the poor and helping the sick. don't have time to waste on intellectuals who are SO intellectual they don't believe in anything. so God bless dude. and peace be with your and yours bro.
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Sclorch
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well, for people who have such smal minds that they can ONLY believe in religion, the world must be a confusing place. poor people.
well, for people who have such small minds that they can ONLY believe in science, the world most be a confusing place. poor people.
The common thread here is dogmatic thinking.
Religion is inherently MORE dogmatic than science.
Argue all you want, it's the truth.
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psilo25
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Well, first off, I never stated anywhere that I am an atheist. I'm more of an agnostic; I question everything, and accept very little as absolute truth. I have my own strong spiritual beliefs, and the basic principles of my beliefs are the same as those of all organized religion (love and compassion for fellow man, unity, etc.). These ideals are very important for human existence. Like I said, I think the Bible and other holy books are truly great, and can be very beneficial as spiritual guides, but they are not to be taken too literally. Too take these writings as absolute (just like taking any belief as absolute) will only lead to closed mindedness and ignorance. Closed mindedness and ignorance are largely the cause of problems in the world today. Let me make this clear, I DO NOT think that belief in the Bible is the single source of the worlds problems, it's just another potential source of closed mindedness and ignorance. ANY firm belief can cause this, not just religious beliefs.
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MAIA
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In reply to:
use your brain! look around! religion is larger now than ever before! they just completed a church is west africa that is now the largest church is the world! in the catholic church alone there are 1 billion people....that is one sixth of the worlds population. so if you think about muslims, buddhists, taoist, jews, protestants, catholics....you guys (athiest) are the minority.
LOL, why do you justify youself with the choice of the masses, that's "Argumentum ad populum" my friend and also the influence of the absurd of majorities taking place inside your mind.
Look whiterastahippie, no offense but i don't think you have the right to call anyone else small minded when you're the first one to hide behind your curtain of faith when some tries to argue some positions with you, and please if you consider yourself open minded stop stating that the immaculate conception is true, anything based on beliefs can not be proved as true.
In reply to:
it doesn't matter what you prove. people will always doubt.
Being humble to consider a possibility and smart enough not to believe in absolute truths, that's one of the most intelligent stuff you've ever wrote in this thread... you know..it works both ways, even for those who are in between, think about that.
In reply to:
don't have time to waste on intellectuals who are SO intellectual they don't believe in anything.
We're just arguing, why the inferiority complex ? Besides no one forces you to waste time on intellectuals, anyway why do you think intellectuals can't help the sick and the poor ? ... is it a full agenda , they don't have time or something ?
MAIA
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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Zahid
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: infidelGOD]
#858632 - 09/02/02 09:16 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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The most important points are lost in the translation.
I disagree. While there is alot that is mistranslated, the most important aspects of Christianity involve repentence to the Lord, Heaven and Hell, God, Satan, Angels, etc. The general message is clear, despite the errors in translation. From my tradition, most of the distortion happened in the first two centuries after Jesus Christ. While there are limits on human language, God still manages to inspire with His written word on earth. God is definately beyond the comprehension of man. His message is not, and the fact that it is written should make us feel comfortable. Without it, alot of people would be following a path that is not good for them, or society.
Atheists like to think religion is dying, Sigmund Freud predicted that it would. All I know is that I will someday die, and that there are three mysterious mass religions that call for the worship of God that exist on earth today. All are very similiar, all are very alive, and when someone tells me they are fables of the ancients, I don't buy it that easily. As long as people continue to use their abilities of reason and logic, there will always be religion, and there will always be people who do not believe in God/religion.
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mirrorsaww
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no offense...but most of you need to study your history a little bit more before making statements that are...not true?
but the apostles did write down themselves what happened and what they saw
and where are these writings by the apostles to be found? It is highly questionable that the Gospel's were written by disciples who were eyewitnesses to the events of Christ's life.
The immaculate conception is contradicted by Paul.
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MAIA
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: Zahid]
#858710 - 09/02/02 10:18 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
three mysterious mass religions that call for the worship of God that exist on earth today
Be humble and don't take all the credits. Abstract reasoning, logic and memory told me god existence is possible, going any further is to accept absolute truths, religious followers tend to think based in a very "ilogical" logic, i mean how can you logically prove a belief ? The only way is to leave the "door open", the "possibility", the "it could be" rather than some dogmas wich are strangely "logical" and thus selfish by essence because they are proposed as unique and blindly unquestionable.
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
Edited by MAIA (09/02/02 10:20 AM)
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whiterastahippie
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: MAIA]
#858864 - 09/02/02 11:30 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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what makes you think i'm hiding behind my curtain of faith maia? i think that just because i believe something firmly doesn't amke me closed minded. considering where i've come from spiritually, i think i've been very open minded (as you consider open mindedness) in the past. i've been agnostic. downright atheistic....protestant....even considered paganism...but you see, this works for me. ever thought that sometimes i just think it's hilarious to see people like you get all riled up when i make staements like i make and have made in the past? it's like it hurts some people to hear me state something i believe to be true as truth.
but ya know, to ME it is truth. so to me IT IS fact. i'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. and i guess sometimes in my zeal and my love for what i believe, i get a little preachy. sorry !!
anyway...you uh...talk about humilty an awful lot for how much pride you exhibit. but that's just a side note.
you want to know what is a basis for what i truely believe...waht everything else stems off of my spanish friend?
anything that has love or portrays love is true, because all truth is Gods truth. all love is Gods love. and anything else, that is false. but really, another thing maia...i really get to you don't i? i mean, i could be wrong, but when you get irked at me, it SEEMS (through your style of writing) that you are just pissed. lol...se la vi, can't make everybody happy right?
you do realize how much you assume though, right?
why the inferiority complex
how do you get that i have one?
Besides no one forces you to waste time on intellectuals, anyway why do you think intellectuals can't help the sick and the poor
wow, i said they couldn't? you must have read into a part of my self conscience that even I didn't knwo existed
and please if you consider yourself open minded stop stating that the immaculate conception is true
it's TRUE! TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE!  okay, so now being open minded means not believing in anything? lol...geez, some people will just never see eye to eye.
LOL, why do you justify youself with the choice of the masses, that's "Argumentum ad populum" my friend and also the influence of the absurd of majorities taking place inside your mind.
why? because the people who said that religion was a thing of the past, are basically saying the same thing. that we are dieing out...i'm just telling you, that we AREN'T dieing out. in fact, we are growing faster than any other group. i'm not saying, "i'm better because i'm bigger" damn you assume alot.
then again, maybe you don't, maybe i just don't state myself clearly enough. could be me...and if it is, i'm sorry...but it SEEMS like you assume alot.
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whiterastahippie
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Re: The Holy Bible... [Re: Sclorch]
#858869 - 09/02/02 11:34 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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riiiiight....well, okay!
and on the same note in the same style you are saying things:
my religion is right...argue all you want! it's truth!
peace man.
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