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Re: Patterns vs. Design [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10347203 -

Please point to these explanations- quote them if you like.

Like I said, all I've see is conclusory, vague, claims without any actual defined reasoning that produced the result claimed sufficiently enough to be independantly verified and applied to other phenomena.

I don't know why you'd presume I don't understand the responses if I don't agree with the claims our making.  Perhaps I just think ou haven't justified yoru claims.  I'm looking for more than conclusory statements, I'd like to see the methodology and data for myself so that it can be evaluated.

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Re: Patterns vs. Design [Re: johnm214]
    #10347228 -

johnm214 said:
I don't know why you'd presume I don't understand the responses if I don't agree with the claims our making. 



I assume you either don't remember, didn't read or didn't understand.  It has zero to do with disagreement and everything to do with your questions.

Next post will have the explanations are briefly as I can quote them.


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Re: Patterns vs. Design [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10347258 -

You wanted to see how to "work out the math":

Quote:
A human skeleton.  A human skeleton comprises 206 bones in a specific configuration that allows humans to move and function.  The configuration, or pattern, is specified and complex.  The skeleton is the result of design.  It would be represented in the EF as a small ball.  It would drop through the first net-natural law- because no natural law mandates the skeleton's configuration or pattern.  It would drop through the second net-chance-because the odds of its specific configuration are beyond chance.  Here's why.

Specified complexity uses a universal probability bound (UPB) as a limit to rule out chance.  Any event or phenomenon where the odds are greater than UPB cannot have happened by chance.  This is because UPB is the number of all the subatomic particles in the universe times the number of times matter can chance in one second times the age of the universe in seconds times one billion.  UPB exhausts all the natural resources in the universe.  UPB is 1 out of 10 to the 150th power.  A skeleton with only 97 bones-a human skeleton has 206-falls outside of the realm of chance because its specific configuration is greater than 1 out of 36 to the 150th power.

When we speak of the assembly of the flagellum in terms of SC we count the number of parts and calculate the odds of their specific configuration.  The parts of the motor, i.e. drive shaft, rotor, etc., are made of 40 or 50 proteins.  Most of the proteins (30 or 40) are found nowhere else in the living world.  The assembly of all of the parts and their proteins coming together at the right time in the right configuration would be a chance of 1 out of 10 to the 1,170 powerth (10 followed by 1,170 zeros)!



In case that isn't clear you multiply the number of the proteins times the number of possible configurations.

You wanted to see something run through the filter:

Quote:
The EF is like a series of three nets-one on top of another.  The top net, natural law, has the largest holes; the middle net, chance, has medium-sized holes; and the bottom net, design, has the smallest holes.  Every event or phenomenon can be dropped into the nets to see whether it is the result of natural law, chance, or ID.  Since every event or phenomenon is the result of one or more of these categories, everything in the universe can be tested this way.

A few examples should make this clear.  An old tree falls down in a forest.  The event (its falling) is the result of natural law-gravity.  This event would be represented in the EF as a large ball that was caught in the first net-natural law.

A person's ticket is drawn in a 50/50 raffle.  The event (its being chosen) is the result of chance.  This event would be represented in the EF as a medium-sized ball.  It would drop through the first net-natural law-but be caught by the second net-chance.

A human skeleton.  A human skeleton comprises 206 bones in a specific configuration that allows humans to move and function.  The configuration, or pattern, is specified and complex.  The skeleton is the result of design.  It would be represented in the EF as a small ball.  It would drop through the first net-natural law- because no natural law mandates the skeleton's configuration or pattern.  It would drop through the second net-chance-because the odds of its specific configuration are beyond chance.  Here's why.

Specified complexity uses a universal probability bound (UPB) as a limit to rule out chance.  Any event or phenomenon where the odds are greater than UPB cannot have happened by chance.  This is because UPB is the number of all the subatomic particles in the universe times the number of times matter can chance in one second times the age of the universe in seconds times one billion.  UPB exhausts all the natural resources in the universe.  UPB is 1 out of 10 to the 150th power.  A skeleton with only 97 bones-a human skeleton has 206-falls outside of the realm of chance because its specific configuration is greater than 1 out of 36 to the 150th power.




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