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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: hippie_cune]
    #5756473 -

Having proven its merit, this thread is no longer seperately sticky'd in the Psychedelic Experience forum, but rather is stickied as part of the PE forum's Important Links thread Please continue contributing to this fascinating subject and know it is stickied still, except now under the Links Thread.

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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Asante]
    #6194041 -

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?:10 or 11 4 or 5 gram trips with homegrown mush.Slight experience with SD.Frequent use of marijuana,and very limited experience with LSA.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: Around 3 months, with 4 or 5 grams of dried cubensis.Marijuana smoked regularily and recently.
- Black Currant Juice brand: Ribena Original
- What reads the concentration on the label?: "no dilution ratio included on the label.Makes 5 times its volume."
- Juice Quantity: 210 ml. = 7 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.2 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, First sample of recently harvested batch.
- Hours since last meal: 8 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): No.Mushrooms were cut and chipped into small pieces manually.
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 20 minutes, squeezed 2 fresh lemons.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):99% sure.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 3X-4X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Estimated total potency:5X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 15-20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 50 mins to an hour.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 6 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:I just want to say the experience I had last night was my most powerful.I've always dosed with higher amounts,usually around 4 grams dry and have just barely reached the point of introspection and revelation I had last night.I've also tooken lower doses before,around 2.5 grams and have had slightly milder but still quite powerful trips.I'm quite sure I wouldn't have had such a powerful experience off of as little as 1.2 grams if it weren't for the blackcurrent juice and lemon soaked shrooms.When effects started coming on I was sure it was going to go the full way.I was sitting on my futon in my room when my thoughts started speeding up and the answers to issues of interest I had previously not fully understood became revealed with the utmost clarity.Life no longer seemed so machine like and trivialized as I let myself go and drift into the psychedelic experience.There was no longer a need to understand things from a lingustic viewpoint as I realized experience was the ultimate reaffirment with which to base my life,beliefs,and ideals.A little while after my thoughts had sped up I strangely enough felt as though the experience was dying down before it had truly reached its peak.I felt quite upset that the experience didn't deliver what it seemed to be building up to,was it dying down already?

I proceeded to load some homegrown bud into my glasswork pipe and began taking hits as I thought the shrooms were dying down,it turns out I was wrong.After smoking the marijuana I almost instantly felt the power of the mushroom sweep over me and carry me away.Usually when I smoke marijuana while on shrooms it ruins the beauty and visuals and sends me down more of a zany thought pattern,this wasn't the case this time around.The marijuana seemed to send me hurling into mushroom land instead of lending any effects of its own to the experience.

What followed after smoking the marijuana can't be described with any feeble language system implemented in everyday life.From what I can remember the peak of the experience started with heavy introspection into the meaning of reality at large.The answers to reality and the cosmic joke were revealed to me through extremely precise and affirming visuals aswell as through thought alone.I realized time was never part of any cosmic process and that it was but a mere illusion programmed into our minds from birth by modern society.Time is infact just a flimsy system of numbers used to guide modern society through the chaos of the everexpansive universe.Every moment is indeed present within every other moment.I understood the past and the now are infact one in the same and only seem to be seperate from one another through the universal syntax ever refining and redefining itself to bring forth new novelty into our dimension.In short I understood that the now was really just the past taking on a new variation of itself.

After spending a good while lying down on my futon in silent darkness I had to go to the washroom.I then proceeded to walk up the stairs out of my bedroom and towards the washroom near the kitchen,and it was at this point that the trip started to make a transition from the introspective to the artistic.As I was walking up the stairs everything was paled and hidden from view by the darkness,and all I could see were beautiful fractal patterns bursting to life and dazzling my eyes.When I reached the main floor of my house there was light shining into my living room from the full moon through the open windows surrounding the living room.I looked around amazed at the celestial beauty the living room had taken on and observed how my surroundings came to life as if I was standing in the middle of a 3d beautiful mosaic picture.

After I had took in the beauty of my surroundings I continued on my way to the bathroom.I had noticed while walking to and from the bathroom that everything around me was indescribably beautiful in the psychedelic state I was in.

When I made my way back to my room I lay back down on my futon and entered back into another train of thought that eventually revealed itself in a series of smooth flawlessly enchanting visuals.This last series of visuals was to do with visionary art and how the physical world is slowly changing and being influenced by the psychedelic community to better encompass and make the psychedelic landscape manifest itself into reality permanatley.I got the sense that what the mushroom was portraying to me through this particular set of visuals was that we as a human species are heading into the realm of the imagination,and the physical world bound by elements and scientific law isn't our true home.

After the last visual sensation manifested the experience died down slowly and gradually everything returned back to normal.

Edited by DivinePsychosis (10/21/06 01:15 PM)

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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #6225732 -



Edited by Cerebro (10/30/06 02:22 AM)

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #6389036 -

So what i do is soak shroom dust in lime/lemon juice bout 2 OZ's and shoot that, and then drunk the currant juice?


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"Stability is Luxury"

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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #7685777 -

Thanks Psiloman for broadening the discussion on MAO inhibitors. I'd like to add that:

A) MAO-A inhibits the breakdown of serotonin (which SSRIs and MDMA raise via different mechanisms and thus the combination with MAO-A inhibitors can potentially be fatal), norepinephrine, tyramine, dopamine, and many tryptamine-based psychedelics, including to some extent psilocybin/psilocin (although its my understanding that [unlike say DMT] this is not the major way they're broken down but that rather the liver enzyme P450-3A4 is likely the major metabolizing enzyme, with MAO-A being secondary) Thus MAO-inhibition in and of itself could not be expected to increase shrooms effects by say 5x. This is born out by the limited mushroom augmentation exhibited by moclobemide, another MAO-A inhibitor.
Therefore - and I'm no expert either - its my opinion that its likely that the black current juice, unlike moclobemide or harmala which despite potently inhibiting MAO-A are far less potent mushroom augmenters, is also inhibiting the primary enzymes responsible for psylocibin a/o psilocin breakdown, not just MAO-A].

B) MAO-B inhibits the breakdown of dopamine, norepinephrine, tyramine, phenethylamine, and some phenethylamine stimulants and psychedelics. (FYI whereas tryptamines tend to be broken down by MAO-A and the liver enzyme P450-3A4 [which is inhibited by 1/3 liter of grapefruit juice and also by myricetin, the main flavanol in black currant juice], phenethylamines on the other hand tend to be metabolized by MAO-B and the liver enzyme P450-2D6.) As a general rule, the small simple ones (serotonin, DMT, phenethylamine) are metabolized by MAO, and the big substituted ones (4-OH-DIPT, MDMA) are metabolized by the liver P450 enzymes. Psilocybin/psilocin seem to fall somewhere in between.
Anyway, you'll notice that MAO-A and B both break down norepinephrine, dopamine, and tyramine. That means that as long as you don't inhibit BOTH MAO-A and MAO-B you aren't likely to end up with an extreme amount of tyramine/norepinephrine and have a hypertensive crisis from eating the wrong food or taking the wrong cough medicine. On the other hand, only MAO-A breaks down serotonin, so an MAO-A inhibitor alone plus an SSRI, Effexor, Cymbalta, MDMA, 5HTP, or Meridia (all raise serotonin) can be fatal. As Psiloman pointed out, we don't even know what kind of MAO inhibitor black currant juice is; and while its perhaps unlikely its fully non-selective (or irriversible) its still possible, so it seems dietary restrictions should be followed. Also, at high doses many MAO-A inhibitors lose their selectivity and become MAO-B inhibitors too (this starts to happen to moclobemide at 900mg) - and since everyones' metabolism is different, someone out there could be in trouble if they ate the wrong food - so better safe than sorry. Also, SSRIs must be avoided.
American prescription MAOIs certainly can be very dangerous if combined with many foods or medications and would be almost certainly fatal combined with MDMA due to the likelihood of both severe serotonin syndrome (which happens when you combine MDMA, SSRIs, Effexor, Meridia, 5HTP, or Cymbalta with MAO-A inhibitors) and hypertensive crisis (which happens when you combine combined MAO-A/B inhibitors with tyramine or any other stimulant).

C) Finally, in regards to mechanism of action, my suspicion is that its not the quercetin or vitamin C found in nearly every other fruit juice that's responsible for the extra augmentation, but rather a combination of an unknown MAO-A inhibitor plus myricetin (and possibly other P450-3A4 inhibitors) which are preventing all major routes of metabolism of the shrooms active ingredients which is providing the profound increase in activity. I suppose I could test this by substituting 16 oz grapefruit juice plus 300mg moclobemide for the black currant juice, but the 3A4 inhibitor in grapefruit juice isn't absorbed from the GI tract (where it nevertheless often has a very large effect on various meds, drugs, etc) so I'm not sure if it'd be an accurate experiment. Besides, I'm not that invested in my theory, and be black current juice works, so I'll stick with that. Cheers!

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #8296745 -

Ok, I really want to try this. Sorry if the question has been asked before, but I really don't have the time to read this entire thread. I can't find the Gummi Bears, can I substitute Gummi Worms? I think they're made from the same stuff.:confused:


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Dexter_Morgan said: I sit down to pee and still get urine on the toilet seat.

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Nimbot]
    #8296819 -

first, this thread is hella old.
second, read the fucking post or gtfo.

third...only bears will work, you'd know this if you read the post. worms will give you violent diarrhea.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #9204953 -

has anyone tryed apple cider vinegar or actually, if it is just the acidity pepsi would work. if the acidity allows something else to take place. try other acidics in combination w the currant juice. the cocentration of the juice probably makes for more acidity than realized.

a different view, i used to drink alot. i would dump about a half of squeezie lemon in a fifth of wiskey and drink the fifth pretty quick cuz it taste like lemonade. after the bottle was gone and the liquer store was closed i would grab some dank beer. i guess the lemon juice cleaned off my toungue or somethin cuz after i drank the lemon juice i could taste every bit of dankness about the beer. i could appriciate beer i usually didnt like.

also it is possable the currant juice is just converting psylocybin

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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: LiteBrite]
    #9567701 -

Black Currant Juice brand: Kumpf (from Germany)
Juice Quantity: ~1 liter 35%
Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis PES Hawaiian
Mushrooms Quantity: about 10 g wet
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes
Hours since last meal: 8 h
Description of effects compared vs. no juice: Mild Hallucinating, insight. ratio 3 to 1 needed for about the same trip-level.
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes, absolutely
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 2x - 3x
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 30 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 2-3 hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4-5 hours later

For all the people who don't believe black currant juice acts as a MAO-inhibitor, here the proof!
Some scientists from Germany found out, that this plant indeed contains MAO-inhibitors.

"The black currant concentrate effects a 61% inhibition of MAO Type B, and an 37% inhibition of MAO Type A" [Page 7, Line 23-24]
In Humans: "MAO Type B activity is inhibited in all three subjects with dependency on dosage and time. Maximum inhibition is obtained 60 minutes after application, and is between 70 and 90% at optimum dosage of 20 grams."

quoted from this ebook

I wish you all happy experimenting with this wonderful juice.
I will continue using it, to intensify my experience.

Edited by myshroomyhead (01/08/09 03:42 PM)

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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: myshroomyhead]
    #9573830 -

Black currants grow wild here in the back country near woodland streams.  Personally i like squaw currants. they grow everywhere on the steppes.
Black currants are tearjerkingly tart, like Oregon grapes.  Another berry very high in ascorbic acid.


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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #9574831 -

If you eat them fresh off the bush they taste way sweeter. They have some kind of way to trick you into thinking they are sweeter than they are when fresh, but soon after they become much more sour. Not sure how that works exactly.

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #10118251 -

Gotta try this (sorry if this is old) Nice find man :smile:


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Harri]
    #10207881 -

why would they sell black current if its an effective and possibly dangerious MAOI without a warning label specifying that on the bottle...:confused:


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-My trade list-

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Dr. Siekadellyk]
    #10226590 -

Have people tried this expecting it NOT to work?

If so, were your socks rocked?

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: koopa]
    #10253939 -

Quote:
Stating blackcurrant is an MAOI is a load of crap - these fruits are active because of the flavonoids: Rutin , Querecetin, etc which inhibit the liver and gut cytochrome P450 enzymes.


interesting, if that would be the case, is it needed to drink the juice an hour beforehand? maybe it would prolong the trip with drinking the juice during a trip?

about the potency enhancement: I think most people highly overrate the enhancement. When taking 4g dried the difference between that or 5g dried can be big. so 4-5x potency would mean 16-20g dried mushrooms? don't think so. percieved potency effects could be 4-5x though.

Besides that a big factor in this probably is a placebo effect, don't underestimate that. Even if it is a placebo effect for a big part, who cares? It's even better you're getting a stronger trip by having expectations; revealing the power of the mind itself on an experience:thumbup:

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: stefan]
    #10851991 -

The subjective effects of black currant juice as a potentiator were trialed four times over a period of several months.

A few preliminary notes: test subject is moderately experienced in testing, over a period of approximately 15 years.  Currant juice used is Maple Leaf Farms (20%).  Base substance used was measured to the nearest 0.1 g raw material.  Trials were conducted using base substance produced by standardized methods, although of different batches.

Trial 1: 32oz currant (20%) was consumed as follows: 16oz at t=-4h, 16oz at t=0h.  20 g fresh base was consumed at t=0h with small amount dark chocolate on an otherwise empty stomach (16h pre-fast).  Alerts at t=20m, full onset at t=45m.  Caught out in the field by quicker-than-expected onset.  Dizziness, freezing cold hands, significant OEV disturbances, feeling of "too much, must force vomit or will pass out and die".  Very sharp feeling, unpleasant, feeling of emergency, serious question of need for medical attention.  Terrifying. (Unusual feelings compared to non-currant experience.)  Subject ate granola and chugged 3 L of water, forced vomiting, recovered sufficiently to return to test center.  Post-vomit, largely typical but intense experience; typical duration of 6-8h.  Notable differences include inability to generate body heat (treated by warm bath despite 75F air temperature) and inability to move from t=1.5h to t=2.5h.  Perception of poisoning, relative mental normalcy but body in bad condition. Also notable for rapidity and intensity of comeup, including being convinced that subject must vomit or suffer a medical situation.  Symptoms later interpreted as possibly anomalous low blood pressure.

Trial 2 and 3: three weeks apart each, 1.8g dried base plus 8-16oz currant.  Enjoyable, typical experiences - strong but not clearly currant-affected.

Trial 4: two weeks post-trial 3.  Attempt at Trial-1 schedule: 16oz of currant (20%) four hours before, then 16oz currant plus 2.0 g dried base with small amounts dark chocolate and ginger on otherwise empty stomach.  (Same batch used as for Trial 3.)  Alerts within 20m, onset within 45m.  By t=1h, sharp bad feelings - edge of pass-out, freezing cold, dizziness on standing, bad pressure at back of skull, perception of poisoning.  Minimal impact on consciousness, low psychedelic effects.  Few but powerful irresistable CEVs in waves - like passing out. Subject laid down, but became afraid of medical consequences due to sharpness of physical symptoms coupled with low mental effects.  Subject elected to self-treat with food, water, and double-ended purging at t=1h based on belief of medical exigency.  Very unpleasant.  Relief from poisoning through vomiting, but physical symptoms persisted - low blood pressure, inability to generate heat.  Warm bath on hot summer day from t=1.5h to 2.5h; feelings of some detachment from poisoned body. Fear of poisoning.  Fear of "going crazy" (committing external harmful acts).  Subject stumbled to bed from 2.5h to 4.0h, awoke nearly at baseline.  Short, brutish, feelings of poisoning.  Horrible. 

Based on these experiences, the subject concluded that 32oz of 20% currant (or 6.4oz effective pure currant) has significant effects on the base experience.  However, the effects are markedly unpleasant and appear to affect the physical body much more than the consciousness.  Feeling of body shutting down, low blood pressure, cessation of thermoregulation are all very negative.  Sharp pressure/pain at back of head felt serious.

Subject unlikely to repeat these experiments in this manner any time soon, if ever.

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: RedX]
    #10959373 -

Hey guys a quick question i ate 2 bits of toast with Vegemite on them this morning at about 6:30 then ate a sandwich with tinned salmon with advacado and alfalfa and then drank a 500ml energy drink at around 11 will i be safe to try this at say 6:00?  since i know you shouldn't have quote: Yeast Brewer's or extracts - yeast extracts (Marmite) which are spread on bread or mixed with water

or quote:  Fish Fresh fish (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986) and vacuum-packed pickled fish or caviar contain only small amounts of tyramine and are safe if consumed promptly or refrigerated for short periods; longer storage may be dangerous (Anon, 1989).

probably being paranoid here but just want to make sure

Any help is appreciated guys


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: SLiCeR]
    #11120045 -

I bought one bottle of the blackcurrant juice and then once i got home realized i needed like almost the whole bottle to myself???
Do you need to drink it straight or can you dilute it?

Anyway so we just tried a bit each amongst 2 friends and i took 5.50g dried woaahhhhhhh man my friend was turning into different people when i looked at him at one stage he was lying on the ground then i tried to help him up and then hes hair started growing then turning grey then it appeared he looked like Einstein! then i was like woahhh i also recall seeing him as a hippy with some purple vest on this was all very wierd for me it seemed he was changing in front of me probly one of the most craziest things i have experienced.

But anyway i could feel the effects much more since i fasted waiting to consume the gummiberry juice and this was my first time i had proper visuals on dry material i like this alot!


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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: SLiCeR]
    #11140220 -

learn something new every day

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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: scrotesmcgrotes]
    #12149737 -

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: 5 years (mush and LSD)
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 5 days
- Black Currant Juice brand: currant affair
- What reads the concentration on the label?: ? I would say pure juice
- Juice Quantity: 2 pints
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis treasure coast
- Mushrooms Quantity: 6 gram dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): yes (medium potency)
- Hours since last meal: 8 hr
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): no
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, 15 min lemon juice only
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): YES YES YES
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 2x at least
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: Haven't tried with just juice
- Estimated total potency: 2 times at least
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, some thing's definitely going to happen"): 30 min
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 1 1/2 hr
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hr
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernible effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: I know this is an old thread, but this was a good experiment. And I will say I don't believe the juice is any kind of an MAOI BUT!!!! their is defiantly an increase in potency in a big way. This experiment was done 3 veteran trippers and myself and all of us agree that this method WORKS. also I took the same dosage of 6gr 5 days early-er so as to get a grasp on weather on not there was an increase in potency and I will say their was a big difference about 2x more potent. also I will say that bubble gummers stay the fuck away for this method. this is ONLY for people that can handle their trip. for the 5 years I've been tripping with all that I've dome(LSD included) this method is in my top 3 strongest trips I've ever had. :eek:


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