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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10198361 -

Rahz said:
deCypher said:
Isn't the NT less violent overall than the OT?  At least we've progressed somewhat.


You mean other than the plan to throw the majority of humanity into a lake of fire? Jesus also seems to endorse self mutilation as a means of avoiding hell. And if your city didn't play host to his roaming pack of cult members, the whole city got damned.

Apparently, God dished it out as it came in the OT, he's saving it up in the New Testament.


You are where I was several years ago. I would have given this exact response, close to verbatim. Then I had someone show me Mark 12:28-31, and I read some of the theories on what Jesus, if such a person existed, actually said.

Christian teaching, at its most basic, is about love. Jesus rarely, if ever, commented on the concept of hell. There are many books that outline potentially fraudulent passages of the modern bible, and there are a huge number of them.

We don't have copies of the original bible. We don't have copies of copies of interpretations of translations of the original bible. The Catholic church did all kinds of meddling with it, too. If there's one thing we can be sure of when it comes to biblical teachings, it is that we cannot assume any of them were ever said by Jesus.

But the religion of Christianity is supposed to be, and only be, the religion that follows Christ. It is that simple. So if we can't rely on the Bible for accuracy, we might as well just go with Jesus' wisest teaching, which is simply the golden rule. He most certainly didn't invent it, but if he was a real person he probably tried to spread it, and that is noble.


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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Lancaster]
    #10198770 -

I have a pretty good grasp of the Christ concept, I was just trying to give NT examples of violence. I agree that Christ is good, but I wouldn't want to guess who exactly put words into Jesus' mouth. Humans, it seems. That's the Bible for ya.

I agree, the New Testament isn't big on temperamental vindication, and is an improvement, results withstanding.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10198789 -

Rahz said:
I agree, the New Testament isn't big on temperamental vindication, and is an improvement, results withstanding.


Isn't Revelations in the New Testament?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10198826 -

Yes, but that's premeditated.;)

And there is the view that all those who will perish do so by rejecting love/God. In the OT, God seemed to make it up as he went, and played favorites.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10198848 -

Rahz said:
In the OT, God seemed to make it up as he went, and played favorites.


I don't know, I've read much of the OT, and he pretty much only killed people who didn't listen to him and/or deserved it; he did save the Isrealites from the Egyptians after all.


Maybe the people in the OT were just generally more sinful? :shrug:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10198931 -

Must have been. He killed almost everyone once. He commanded the Jews to commit genocide, women and children gotta go too. Bad, bad, wicked people!

I wonder if Jesus would have helped?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10198936 -

OT is all about kicking ass and taking names as far as im concerned


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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10199043 -

Rahz said:
Must have been. He killed almost everyone once. He commanded the Jews to commit genocide, women and children gotta go too. Bad, bad, wicked people!

I wonder if Jesus would have helped?


The thing is he performed miracles in order to save the Isrealites from the Egyptians, and promised them a land of milk and honey. He performed many miracles along the way to this land, too. All he wanted was for them to obey his commands.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10199335 -

Do what I say, or I'll turn you to salt, rain down fire, kill your women and children, flood you dead, kill your first born, etc.

Hey, kill your child for me... just so I know you're legit.

Moses had a group of young men arbitrarily kill their brothers, companions, and neighbors.

Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth.

Say the wrong thing, and have your community pelt you with stones until dead.

Disease, and famine! Don't do the wrong things.

And again, there's the genocide.

I'm not saying the OT is/isn't just, just that it's pretty violent. So he parted a sea, and provided some food to his chosen people. He occasionally caused people to prosper. But a few lousy miracles, and a broken promise isn't going to sway my opinion. All they've got right now is a shitty strip of land surrounded by all the enemies God helped them make. :tongue:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10199342 -

"Moses had a group of young men arbitrarily kill their brothers, companions, and neighbors. "

No he didn't, where did you read this?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10199363 -

Check Exodus 32.

It's where Moses comes back and catches his people worshiping a gold bovine.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #10199410 -

Quote:
It's where Moses comes back and catches his people worshiping a gold bovine.


Oprah Winfrey?


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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10199528 -

Poid said:
"Moses had a group of young men arbitrarily kill their brothers, companions, and neighbors. "

No he didn't, where did you read this?



It would help to read the bible before you correct someone who is better informed.

Moses instructs the isrealites to kill their own brothers, etc etc. The levites do most of the killing, and for the rest of the OT they are in God's favor. It even notes how many casualties there are, somewhere around 3,000 I believe. What's so ironic is that Moses had just written "thou shalt not kill." Literally, the next thing he did was to have thousands of his own people killed. Pretty lulzy.


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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Rahz]
    #10202018 -

Rahz said:
Check Exodus 32.

It's where Moses comes back and catches his people worshiping a gold bovine.


That's not arbitrary at all, that is a direct offense of one of the commandments:
Quote:
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.



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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/20/09 02:37 PM)

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Lancaster]
    #10202033 -

Lancaster said:
Poid said:
"Moses had a group of young men arbitrarily kill their brothers, companions, and neighbors. "

No he didn't, where did you read this?



It would help to read the bible before you correct someone who is better informed.

Moses instructs the isrealites to kill their own brothers, etc etc. The levites do most of the killing, and for the rest of the OT they are in God's favor. It even notes how many casualties there are, somewhere around 3,000 I believe. What's so ironic is that Moses had just written "thou shalt not kill." Literally, the next thing he did was to have thousands of his own people killed. Pretty lulzy.


As I said earlier, I have read much of the OT, and have read well beyond the point where Moses dies.


In the OT, no one who follows God's commandments gets killed.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10202046 -

IMO caring what the bible promotes or does not promote is for losers.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10202060 -

Quote:
You shall not make for yourself an idol


Like almost every single church I have been in...


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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10202117 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
You shall not make for yourself an idol


Like almost every single church I have been in...


Almost? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10202199 -

Quote:
That's not arbitrary at all, that is a direct offense of one of the commandments:


Yea, but they didn't hunt down all the idol worshipers based on eye-witness accounts, or some other rational process of determining who was guilty of adoring a shiny cow.

Being a brother, neighbor, or friend of someone is not grounds for execution in any rational, non-arbitrary sense.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Does the Bible promote violence or non-violence? [Re: Poid]
    #10202211 -

I was in a Unitarian Church that had no statues.


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