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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Compassion..
    #10030699 -

Thought I'd dig up this ol' bone to discuss...

Is compassion an inherent part of what makes us human or is it just self serving nonsense or perhaps something else?

Under which circumstances or contexts, if any, might you recommend compassion to be expressed or not expressed?

Or simply, what do you think or how do you feel about compassion?

Is this relevant to this forum??

:peace:


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030715 -

You can find compassion in yourself just as easily as you can find hatred.  :shrug:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: deCypher]
    #10030752 -

Mirror neurons. These little guys allow our minds to mimic what we see and invoke emotional memories. For example:

You see a murder scene in a movie and you get the goosebumps.

Obviously you are not at any risk of harm because it is just a movie. Well, mirror neurons make your mind react in a way that makes you feel scared. It makes you feel so scared that your body actually physically responds with a faster heart rate, dilated pupils, etc.

Its because of this type of reflecting of what we see and imposing it on our own mind and body that we can have empathy. Mirror neurons allow us to feel in a way what others feel. Recognizing their condition and wanting to improve it if it is bad would be compassion.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: SlashOZ]
    #10030776 -

SlashOZ said:
Mirror neurons. These little guys allow our minds to mimic what we see and invoke emotional memories. For example:

You see a murder scene in a movie and you get the goosebumps.

Obviously you are not at any risk of harm because it is just a movie. Well, mirror neurons make your mind react in a way that makes you feel scared. It makes you feel so scared that your body actually physically responds with a faster heart rate, dilated pupils, etc.

Its because of this type of reflecting of what we see and imposing it on our own mind and body that we can have empathy. Mirror neurons allow us to feel in a way what others feel. Recognizing their condition and wanting to improve it if it is bad would be compassion.


Couldnt agree less..
Actually.. i might agree that fear is a product of manipulated neural activity.
Fear.. is sort of imposed..
Remember when you were a kid..
Fearless..
Before you were taught good and bad.. and before you did that "bad" something , and got frightened  by your parents ..

Compassion isnt really like that..
It cannot be taught..
It cannot be imposed..

It comes from somewhere else..


Quote:
You can find compassion in yourself just as easily as you can find hatred.


There is so much love in this cosmos , as we like to call it.. that hatred.. is an act stemming from ones inability to see it..
It is a reaction to the illusion of absence..

Like a heroin withdrawal..


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: SlashOZ]
    #10030777 -

deCypher, so what might it mean to us when we find compassion as easily as hatred within?

SlashOz, How might mirror neuron theory account for people feeling compassion towards non-humanoid-like entities such as dolphins or trees or the environment in general?


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030789 -

when intelligence dominates compassion there will always be suffering.


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Edited by Hubbub (03/24/09 01:35 AM)

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030797 -

Mufungo said:
deCypher, so what might it mean to us when we find compassion as easily as hatred within?


Both are emotions, and so both are readily at your disposal.  It's just up to you which you choose to feel.  :mushroom2:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: jivJaN]
    #10030798 -

JivJan, I don't think Slash was saying compassion was like fear. He was talking about neural mechanisms upon which emotions towards other people are supported. Kind of like a neuropsych approach to the question at hand.

So far from what you have said, I have gathered that you think compassion is not like fear, compassion cannot be taught, nor can it be imposed, and that it comes from somewhere else. Have any idea of where it comes from?


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030799 -

I think we recognize death and suffering in all creatures. Have you ever had a plant in your house that wilted and died? You could tell it was dieing. The same goes for a dog that cries etc. Mirror neurons are the physical explanation for how we can relate to other beings. Further, we have a great deal of control over how we feel towards other beings. Some feelings are spontaneous and some are the result of conditioning. Sometimes we change how we feel about certain beings. Its all very relative to the individual since it is our individual biochemical and electrical impulse driven brains imposing our thoughts onto reality.

I think the real question is whether or not other animals have these mirror neurons as well.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030823 -

deCypher, with both emotions being ready at our disposal, and it's just up to what we choose to feel. Is this choice a conscious one?


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030824 -

The Spirit.

btw.. i know what he was trying to say. That kind of approach is quite frequent.
What i was trying to say.. is that fear can be observed through that kind of approach. It is a product.

IMO ..Compassion cant.


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030829 -

Mufungo said:
deCypher, with both emotions being ready at our disposal, and it's just up to what we choose to feel. Is this choice a conscious one?


I don't think so.  Circumstances happen, experiences accumulate, and ultimately the individual either realizes what feels right (i.e. which actions go in harmony with your conscience), or he or she continues blundering around feeling guilty.  I don't believe we can change that fundamental part of ourselves.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: deCypher]
    #10030852 -

compassion is emotion and emotion comes from the heart. Fear I dont think comes from the heart because paranoia is a thought process first and then turns into emotion.

True emotion is unadulterated by concept.


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: deCypher]
    #10030855 -

deCypher said:
Mufungo said:
deCypher, with both emotions being ready at our disposal, and it's just up to what we choose to feel. Is this choice a conscious one?


I don't think so.  Circumstances happen, experiences accumulate, and ultimately the individual either realizes what feels right (i.e. which actions go in harmony with your conscience), or he or she continues blundering around feeling guilty.  I don't believe we can change that fundamental part of ourselves.


But.. hasnt it already been changed by these experiences ?
Why wouldnt it be possible to do it again ?


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Compassion.. [Re: SlashOZ]
    #10030866 -

SlashOZ said:
I think we recognize death and suffering in all creatures. Have you ever had a plant in your house that wilted and died? You could tell it was dieing. The same goes for a dog that cries etc. Mirror neurons are the physical explanation for how we can relate to other beings. Further, we have a great deal of control over how we feel towards other beings. Some feelings are spontaneous and some are the result of conditioning. Sometimes we change how we feel about certain beings. Its all very relative to the individual since it is our individual biochemical and electrical impulse driven brains imposing our thoughts onto reality.

I think the real question is whether or not other animals have these mirror neurons as well.


Recognising death and suffering in other beings is one thing, but then feeling compassion for them is another thing. I understood that mirror neurons operate on a stimulus/response kind of deal, hence the name, i.e. action by someone and visual/auditory information stimulates mirror neurons to fire and give the person the motor sensation of doing the action themself. Eg. see someone smile and then feel as though you are smiling and this is translated into feeling what the other person is feeling, empathy.. It seems logical that there could be top-down processing that can over ride natural responses due to mirror neurons, but would we feel it first before over riding it? Either way, why does the stimulus translate into compassion? Care to have a guess?

Mirror neurons have definitely been discovered in other primates. After all, that's how they were discovered. Not sure about other animals though.


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Hubbub]
    #10030883 -

Hubbub said:
compassion is emotion and emotion comes from the heart. Fear I dont think comes from the heart because paranoia is a thought process first and then turns into emotion.

True emotion is unadulterated by concept.


If you recognize something as an emotion then it has been adulterated by concept. Emotion, like all thought, is in response to physical stimuli.

Compassion always has an object which one is feeling compassion towards. Whatever you are feeling compassion towards exists externally and independent of your mind. Through various physical processes we come to have some sort of knowledge about the outside world and the objects that exist in it. Some of the objects are other living creatures as in ants, trees and other humans. This aspect of their being makes them more related to us than a rock or the wind. Our ability to relate to similar situations and recognizing what other beings are going through allows us to feel compassion for them. In our minds we are able to put ourselves in someone else's shoes and feel sorry for them.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030887 -

Hubbub, are you saying that compassion only comes from the heart and can't come about due to thinking about something first which then turns into an emotion (like fear did)?


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: Mufungo]
    #10030903 -

deCypher, if we can't change that fundamental part of ourselves, can anything else change it?


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Re: Compassion.. [Re: jivJaN]
    #10030910 -

jivJaN said:
But.. hasnt it already been changed by these experiences ?
Why wouldnt it be possible to do it again ?


Yes, certainly.  We change all the time; neurons die, atoms shift and become part of that singular consciousness we deem us.  Our experiences are what shape us; we can't ultimately change who we are at the core (nature) but the world changes us nonetheless (nurture).


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Compassion.. [Re: deCypher]
    #10030944 -

I think that fear takes you away from the here and now. Not actual fear, but paranoia. Obviously if a gun was pulled on you than you would be very correct to feel afraid. That is a scenario when fear comes before thought instead of afterwards, but in most cases it comes afterwards in the form of paranoia.

Things such as love and compassion are usually felt first and then analyzed or questioned later. You see, love and compassion is what connects you to other life outside of yourself. Expressions such as that are almost not explainable or really make a lot of sense. There are science wizz' out there that will tell you that love doesnt truly exist.

Fear disconnects you from other life. When you are confronted with a scenario that deserves fear than your own survival should be the only thing on your mind, but I dont think people are often confronted with these real scenarios. Often fear takes the form of lying in bed thinking too much or not trusting another person or some people just have an everlasting sense of impending doom caused by stress and constant worry. Meditation is an age old practice to releive oneself of fear because meditation shuts down your thoughts.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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