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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Xlea321]
    #747060 - 07/15/02 03:04 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

So the idea that "It's all because you've read UFO reports" rings a little hollow. If that was the case I would be dreaming about meeting aliens, which i never do. However, when i take mushrooms i encounter aliens on a regular basis.

Does it ring hollow that the early (re)explorers of psilocybin, of the last century such as Hoffman, Leary, Wasson and others who were NOT subject to a barrage of UFO/Alien pop culture NEVER mentioned alien visions?

Does it ring hollow that I nore nay of my tripping friends have ever seen/reported alien motifs?

Why do "skeptics" rarely if ever, report these same things? Perhaps because they are not so focused on a fantasy life?

And finally, the question that I have asked a dozen times and have NEVER gotten an answer to: "Why do you hold alien visions to be more important than cartoon (or other dream-like) apparitions?

What makes you think they have more substance or reality than other mushroom-induced imagery?





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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinellib
journeyman
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 129
Loc: florida
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Sclorch]
    #747104 - 07/15/02 03:49 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Tio,
effect is the same, more of the active stuff in the synapse
read for the theme of the paragraph
nor did i say it was a SSRI, it is not a selective reuptake inhibitor,
but an agonist will dump, thereby depleting the precursors
a reuptake, general inhibitor will keep the same stuff in the synapse.

the paper, which is on obssessive compulsive disorders does suggest that the psilocybin works as an agonist through those two subreceptors, thank you for pointing that out.

however, it is irrelevant to th epoint that i was making, again a reuptake inhibitor will do th esame thing, may just take a bit longer, and not a sleective reuptake inhibitor, a generalized one


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #747248 - 07/15/02 05:41 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Does it ring hollow that the early (re)explorers of psilocybin, of the last century such as Hoffman, Leary, Wasson and others who were NOT subject to a barrage of UFO/Alien pop culture NEVER mentioned alien visions?

But we've been through this Swami. Have you read Maria Sabina - Saint mother of the mushrooms? She talks about meeting wierd and strange entities on every other page. Lilly talked about meeting aliens back in '73 with "Center of the cyclone", and it forms the basis of his 1978 autobiography "The Scientist". Mckenna wrote the mushrooms were aliens in '75. There's plenty of evidence man, read around and you'll find it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: llib]
    #747298 - 07/15/02 06:19 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

llib: nor did i say it was a SSRI, it is not a selective reuptake inhibitor,
Really?
What was THIS then?:
Psilocibin acts as a general serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

If you're trying to fool someone into thinking that you were somehow "mistaken" and not OUTRIGHT WRONG, then please continue in this manner. You were wrong. No big deal.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #747439 - 07/15/02 07:26 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Does it ring hollow that the early (re)explorers of psilocybin, of the last century such as Hoffman, Leary, Wasson and others who were NOT subject to a barrage of UFO/Alien pop culture NEVER mentioned alien visions?
Have you ever considered that maybe the aliens didn't choose to start making contact with humans until only 50 years or so ago? Maybe they thought that since we had evolved to a point technologically that we could destroy ourselves as a species, that they would step in and help us.
This isn't my belief, only a return to your narrow sighted questions.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (07/15/02 09:12 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Adamist]
    #747449 - 07/15/02 07:32 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Have you ever considered that the aliens didn't choose to start making contact with humans until only 50 years or so ago?

So then the 'Virgin' Mary was not actually a virgin artificially inseminated by the greys, but instead had secret carnal relations with one of the Pharisies?


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #747638 - 07/15/02 08:53 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

That is if you take the example of mushrooms, they have pros and cons like any other drug, if you take 20 beers instead of 5 you get drunk, it's all a question of balance between your body and the quantity and quality of the drug, if i want to disconnect from planet earth i would take 10g but if i want to still comunicate and interact i take 3g.
What i want to say is humans can benefit from hallucinogens to understand how alternative consciousness can affect our "personal universe" or how we see reality.
To explain myself i take the words of J.R. Backer.
"
"Normal" and "Altered" States of Consciousness
The theses that one of the brain's primary functions is reality construction and that the mind is an emergent property of the brain involved at least in part in the same task leads to the question of what is the "normal" nature of the relationship between the two. Evolutionary considerations suggest an answer to this question.
Reality construction is essentially an outward-directed process, i.e., it is primarily involved with developing hypotheses about the meaning of the data being fed to the brain by afferent fibers originating in the exteroceptors. To be sure, from time to time unusual or relevant data (such as pain signals) from the interoceptors will attract the attention of the mind, but most of the data the mind is made aware of concerns the world which begins at the outer surface of the skin. This is not surprising, for, as we have seen, an animal must continually monitor the world around it, make hypotheses about what it is experiencing, and check on the "correctness" of these hypotheses.
Following TART (1980), we may refer to this normal pattern of brain-mind functioning as the "baseline" state of consciousness. In humans, one of the chief attributes of this state&#8212;and one of the characteristics which distinguishes it from other states of consciousness&#8212;is that it is built upon consensus. In the words of BERGER & LUCKMANN (1967:23):

The reality of everyday life... [is] an intersubjective world, a world that I share with others. This intersubjectivity sharply differentiates everyday life from other realities.... I am alone in the world of my dreams, but I know that the world of everyday life is as real to others as it is to myself. Indeed, I cannot exist in everyday life without continually interacting and communicating with others. "

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #748416 - 07/15/02 01:55 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Our brains function using concentrations of neurotransmitters. Like any chemical system, the neurotransmitters establish an equilibrium. What we call a "state" of conciousness is determined by the relative concentrations of these chemicals. These states are altered by the food we eat, the amount of rest we get, general thought processes (more noticable in traumatic events), and chemicals that we put in our bodies. Psilocybin does not "disrupt" normal brain functioning any more than an antidepressent which supposedly helps to "normalize" brain functioning. "Disruption" implies derogitory or chaotic action and at low levels, both drugs can improve mental ability. At high levels they can be disruptive but the designation is arbitrary.

Although psilocybin has not been studied as much as LSD, mescaline, and other psychoactive, nitrogen containing organics, there is enough evidence to gain insight into its action in the brain. Like most biogenic amines , psilocybin may effect the metabolism within the post synaptic cell by binding to serotonin and dopamine receptors much like an SSRI. This would result in a cascade of signal transduction pathways, ultimately resulting in a temporary change in the "balance" or equilibrium of neurotransmitter concentration. The duration of which is entirely dependent on the binding strength or affinity of the molecule to the receptor.


--------------------
:egyptian:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Xlea321]
    #748577 - 07/15/02 03:35 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

But we've been through this Swami.
Maybe if you had responded the first 3 times when I asked for references...

Have you read Maria Sabina - Saint mother of the mushrooms? She talks about meeting wierd and strange entities on every other page.
So now any "weird entitiy" is an alien? Post a paragraph please where she states that she encountered beings from another solar system.

Lilly talked about meeting aliens back in '73 with "Center of the cyclone", and it forms the basis of his 1978 autobiography "The Scientist".
He talked about a thousand unverifiable things. He was a ketamine junky which make his conclusions somewhat suspect.

Mckenna wrote the mushrooms were aliens in '75.
This is a pathetic sidetrack. He postulated that they might be from space-faring spores with no evidence whatsoever.

This is a FAR cry from experiencing aliens while tripping, which in all his books, he never mentions such a personal encounter.

There's plenty of evidence man, read around and you'll find it.
Books are not evidence.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (07/16/02 07:01 AM)


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #748614 - 07/15/02 03:45 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"He talked about a thousand unverifiable things. He was a ketamine junky which make his conclusions somewhat suspect." Centre of the Cyclone was published in 1971, many years before Lilly's involvement with Ketamine


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #749008 - 07/15/02 05:56 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)


Mckenna wrote the mushrooms were aliens in '75.
This is a pathetic sidetrack. He postulated that they might be from space-faring spores with no evidence whatsoever.

And why do you think he said this? Because he'd met fucking aliens on mushrooms you arsehole!

He was a ketamine junky which make his conclusions somewhat suspect.

He was also a man with an intellect so far ahead of yours they are not even comparable. An absolute genius in many fields and a respected lecturer world-wide. Who are you? Some guy who writes on a messageboard who isn't even taken seriously there. And you cast aspersions on John Lilly's intellect?

Books are not evidence.

You argument was because you and none of your mates had ever met entities on mushrooms that meant no-one else had. Or that it all comes from someone watching Communion....LOL...I've pointed out there is vast body of reports going back thousands of years. Including works like the Tibetan book of the dead and near death experiences reported in Plato's works. All report encounters with beatific entities.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: raytrace]
    #749662 - 07/16/02 12:04 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Aliens? they're everywhere, man...EVERYWHERE...(under any discussion topic )


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Xlea321]
    #750287 - 07/16/02 07:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

He was a ketamine junky which make his conclusions somewhat suspect.

And you cast aspersions on John Lilly's intellect?

Like many here, you have a severe reading disorder. I made ZERO mention of his intellect. Just like you see aliens where I don't, you also see words where there aren't any.

There likewise was no casting of aspersions, Lilly himself admitted that he had a problem.

My intelligence or lack thereof, is also totally irrelevant to the thread. Try digesting the words before you go off on an emotional rant.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #750288 - 07/16/02 07:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Fair enough - you got me there.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #750586 - 07/16/02 09:08 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

yawn...

yes swami, that would be good except he wrote "The Scientist" long after he was off Ketamine. Therefore his intellect wasn't compromised in any way. You follow?

Your intelligence is central to this thread, if you had any you wouldn't make the moronic points you're making.

Cheers!


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #750847 - 07/16/02 10:58 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"Like many here, you have a severe reading disorder."

Swami 1
The rest 0

" you also see words where there aren't any."

Sure, where's that ketamine stuff you wrote about J. Lilly ?

"Try digesting the words before you go off on an emotional rant."

That's what i sometimes call eating shit without complaining. You make people rant, ever wonder why Swami ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: raytrace]
    #750877 - 07/16/02 11:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

tunnels, spirals, honeycombs, cobwebs (familiar to anyone??)



the 4 basic groups of patterns as categorized by Kluver (1920)

mirroring functions of the brain, according to Jack Cowan (mathematician & neuroscientist, University of Chicago)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: MAIA]
    #751017 - 07/16/02 12:30 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

That's what i sometimes call eating shit without complaining. You make people rant, ever wonder why Swami ?

I can make no one do anything. If one is uncentered and has their precious beliefs questioned, then they quickly reveal their true nature.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #751830 - 07/16/02 06:25 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

You arn't questioning anyones beliefs. You are making a series of profoundly ignorant statements that I have refuted every time with simple knowledge and logic.

Lilly wrote Center of the Cyclone before he even tried Ketamine and reported encounters with aliens in that. Your "argument" is destroyed...so what else is new...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
Re: Scrambled Neurons [Re: Swami]
    #752318 - 07/16/02 11:10 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"I can make no one do anything"
Sure, afterall this is the internet and all we do is use the keyboard. Words are power budy, they can arise all kind of feelings and thoughts, anyway i think you make people write, at least.

"If one is uncentered and has their precious beliefs questioned, then they quickly reveal their true nature."

Why the rhetorical speech ? Anyway, i have no problem revealing my nature, if somebody question my beliefs then it's a good excuse to start a dialog or conversation, people can learn this way you know, if that has to do with my nature then excuse me for listening, accepting and learning others points of view. On the contrary, your blind rationalist beliefs give you a scientific prove wich you consider as unquestionable, that way, debate my ass, others differences will never make any difference to you.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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