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Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment?
    #9986575 -

The mentally ill in western society are stigmatized and mental illness is looked at as a defect or deficiency. But is it really? For thousands of years before our modern scientific era, the mentally ill were considered to be divinely possessed, and were even revered in some cultures. Even today in third world countries, the mentally ill fair better than in the industrialized nations and most recover. But as the virus of atheism spread and the soul of western man died into materialistic hedonism, the divine became something not positive but negative.

It is common knowledge that most psychoactive drugs can trigger reactions in people that appear similar to mental illness or psychosis. Methamphetamine taken in high doses can cause a psychosis that can't be distinguished from schizophrenia. Psychedelics can also cause psychotic like behavior in people, although this wears off once the drug is out of the body in most people. But a few with disposition to mental illness may not ever be the same again.

What I'd like to say is many people ingest these chemicals to experience what mentally ill people experience without any substances. People take entheogens to experience the divine within, but maybe the mentally ill mind is already there without needing any drug to experience it. Some mentally ill people can go with it and live happily, but some go into a bad trip and wind up in hospitals or maybe even dead. It seems people take drugs to experience what the mentally ill experience naturally. You have to decide, is it a defect or a necessary mutation which, if the mentally ill can overcome the bad trip aspect of being stigmatized, perhaps could live in a state of higher awareness? To each their own but is mental illness necessarily a bad thing?

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #9986870 -

Sometimes.. you cant say its one or the other.. good or bad.. sometimes.. it just depends.
Certainly IMO , there are many of those thought to be mentally ill, who are actually far more stable mentally and spiritually than your average joe..
On the other hand.. some just got their stuff mixed up.
Whether its an entheogen or any kind of psychedelic .. sometimes the information that comes through can be too much to bare.. or the information is simply distorted.
This is when "illness" can occur.. or what i like to call  distorted thinking.
I wouldnt go ahead and lock them up... but we lack the qualified people to lead them back on the right path. This doesnt mean they dont exist.. but if one of these "seekers" , shall i say ,is closely surrounded by very close-minded people.. most likely his contact  with people , in general , will begin to be limited , let alone approved with a spiritual healer or what have you ..someone that would most likely seem more crazy than him to this group ..

Even within this illness.. there is a way to come through..
I would not wish mental torment on anybody.. i have tasted it , and it would be an understatement to say it is not pleasant.
But.. it is the price .. Sometimes.. we have to go through the madness..
Those that endure... are the wise of which you speak.

I appreciate threads like this...
And if you will allow , a sort of crazy prophetic statement from my part..
We will  be seeing a lot of "crazy" people in the very near future which will not be able to handle the intensity of the new vibration.
They will have a "bad trip" , so to speak..
This is only to allude to your question whether  it is an evolutionary defect  or divine enlightenment - Its Both.
Evolutionary Divine Enlightenment :smile:

And i believe... the more the word is spread , on exactly these kind of issues.. That much more enlightenment we will see , instead of malfunctioning unprepared minds , and broken spirits.
We all need help ,sometimes .. and i would argue that the current medical assistance is no more than a setback ..
A numbing of the senses in a way..
Hibernation of the soul captive in its yellow ray vehicle.

It is all dependent on ones perspective..
90 percent of the people would try to lock me up if they knew what runs through the corridors of my mind..
On the other hand.. i would argue their insanity over mine any day..
But.. i would not cure them with the same medicine they would shove down my throat..

That is the difference i hope your modern man will soon understand..
All illness.. is spiritual at its core... and no matter what you hear from  be it a mad man , mystic ,scientist , priest , banker or the paper boy that lives on your block..
We are ALL in need of healing..

And it is underway.

:psychsplit:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: jivJaN]
    #9986879 -

Good post, I definitely agree with your sentiments. :sun:

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: jivJaN]
    #9987019 -

well im kinda a crazy dude, and my philosophy in general is pretty crazy to most people but I don't mind.Sure I get made fun of by atheists and lots of people because my ideas are weird but I'm not religious so they can have a good laugh it is all good anyways, you know laughter is good medicine and I don't mind if people think what I think is funny because I too think it is funny and I don't think we should take ourselves so seriously because that is a sure way to crack up. People don't usually get it though because most people take themselves way to seriously, and that is the problem in general. I am pretty sure if the human race stops taking itself so seriously and realizes, in comparison to the size of the cosmos and possibly what is beyond we are really pretty damn small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. People don't like to think that though because it makes them depressed, it is hard to be thoroughly and completely humbled before the entire universe and realize that you are really not much at all and i guess some people just can't handle it, they cling to what they think makes them important but it is not what makes them important that they think, but people are important. We are significant, but we are not significant in the ways we like to think we are. We are significant though, but it is completely upside down from the way people believe what makes them significant. We have gotten everything upside down unfortunately but there is no way to explain that to people, and they will call you mad and lock you up so what can you do but laugh while you shed a tear, and hope maybe some will escape that insanity because the world is truly insane and anyone who looks at it carefully will go completely mad.

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #9987636 -

I have a hard time accepting some of the speculations as fact, when I receive an inside view of the mental health systems which exist in our culture.

Psychiatrists make up a tiny percentage of medical doctors. They are the lowest paid with the same amount of schooling required. The vast majority of mental health professionals reside well outside the field of psychiatry.

Psychotherapy has rates of success well over 80%. In tightly controlled conditions, where patients receive either psychotherapy, or sessions of just talking with a therapist but no therapy being administered, 93% of participants recovered with psychotherapy over just talking with a therapist. This was to control whether or not just having a warm, empathetic individual was enough to foster healing.

93%!

It has also been shown that given enough time, most individuals will get better on their own. Some won't, but a majority will. However, it may take a LONG time. Psychotherapy is designed to speed up the healing and growth process. Diagnostic criteria are in place to foster this speed -- if we know what we're dealing with, we can quickly apply the correct solution.

This is for the VAST majority of mental illness. There are of course exceptions, which I believe are being referred to in this post. Schizophrenia, Bipolar, and various personality disorders, are all beyond our ability to treat with psychotherapy at this point, and it is believed to be a result of the deeply biological nature of such disorders. There is no evidence that supports the conclusion that they will get better on their own. Perhaps that is a result of our culture. Perhaps as jivJaN said, we don't have the capable individuals to help guide. Whatever the reason, we don't have an effective solution.

Do I think we should medicate everyone with these problems then? No, not unless that's what they themselves are looking for. Do I think we should foster further empathy and compassion for that which we don't fully understand? Yes, I do.

Psychologists were thrilled when LSD was created in the labs. It allowed them to experience "the schizophrenic state" for a period of time, and they thought for sure they were going to find clues that would help in this understanding. But, it shortly became illegal, and progress has been severely hindered ever since.

To wrap this up, and sorry for rambling, I think both sides of this get a bad rap. Generalization of mental illness to specific, extreme cases, is common. This isn't the reality. Likewise, stigmatizing these extreme cases is very common, and shouldn't be the reality. What are these extremes? I don't know. I'd lean towards the divine enlightenment side, in part because of what I have experienced on my psychedelic journey, as well as due to a deeply rooted belief in a creator. The fact that these extreme disorders are genetically based, points to individuals being created as such.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #9988781 -

Yeah, it was rewarded by some cultures, while others, for the same reasons, killed those people or lobotomized them. You just gotta love ignorance.
People who trip don't experience the same thing as schizophrenics do, I don't know where you heard such a thing.
I don't know what you mean by a mental illness being bad or good, but the term illness itself points towards something undesirable. Just look at how many people with psychological problems are actually being able to feel happy and stay in touch with reality in such a manner that they don't end up hurting themselves or those around them.
As for being in touch with divine... well, there's nothing to show something like this.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9989240 -

Quote:
People who trip don't experience the same thing as schizophrenics do, I don't know where you heard such a thing.


I dont know where you heard such a thing.
I will assume you are comparing your experiences with those of a schizophrenic...
And if that assumption should be correct.. i would proceed to assume you are not the heroic doser , are you ?
:smile:
No hard feelings.. 
My research along with personal experience with various substances has led me to believe that this illness , as well as certain effects of psychoactive chemicals can be related to the pineal gland , or what is commonly known as the third eye.
Once the ammount of light smashing against the retina of your eyes decreases , (dark room, eyes closed etc.) the brain is signaled and releases melatonin.
To make a very long and boring story short.. melatonin puts you to sleep ..
or at least helps..
Once the melatonin has done its work.. during the sleeping cycle DMT may be released..
This chemical is the direct cause of dreams and visionary events during a NDE..
But this you have all heard of before..
Schizophrenics.. simply have their pineal malfunctioning..
This is why.. most of them have sleeping disorders..
I would guess 90% of paranoid schizophrenics are insomniacs..
Melatonin is being released.. but the mind refuses to go to sleep..
The process is abrupted..
Sleep deprivation causes hallucinations , if i may use this ill-term , and the entire mechanism of releasing these chemicals within the brain may be reprogrammed with a very fearful and unhealthy lifestyle..
Basically... they ARE.. tripping balls..
Stuck between dream.. and waking life.. Never knowing the difference..
The subconscious pours into the conscious mind as the veil has been broken..
The subconscious mind is very skilled..
Able to recognize higher frequencies.. visually and auditory..
This is why they have , what your medical society would term , imaginary friends..
I would just say friends.. Spirits.. ET's .. ethereal beings.. you name it..
A whole world of opportunity opens up..
BUT.. and this is where it gets fucked up.. sometimes.. its a dream..
Sometimes its thought manifested.. and it is these occurrences that kill their credibility..
Remember.. its not always one or the other.. A fine balance always exists , and this middle part is what humanity so often fails to comprehend as they rush to generalize and categorize everything they see in order to deal with "better" and feel at ease knowing that  the opposite side of their constructed ,  imaginary polarity is kept at bay for their protection..

khm.. like this
Quote:
...and stay in touch with reality in such a manner that they don't end up hurting themselves or those around them.


Which "reality" ? Whos reality ?


I believe this is a dream..
I believe there is no thing which is not thought manifested..
I have been in contact with some "imaginary friends" of my own..

And .. i have done everything else your normal person would do..
If you met me.. you would have no idea that you are speaking to a mad man.
Unless.. this "insanity" has knocked on your door as well..

Quote:
As for being in touch with divine... well, there's nothing to show something like this.


Perhaps.. you do not look properly.
Another poor quality , that is yet to be "reverse-engineered"..
Always waiting for someone to "show" .. instead of  seeking and finding.
No "evidence" ey ?
:smile:

This is where i must smile my fiery bird-snake friend :smile:


Again.. no hard feelings.. :mushroom2:
I mean not to attack you personally , only to defend ,from your poor choice of words.
:peace:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: jivJaN]
    #9990186 -

Quote:
jivJaN said: during the sleeping cycle DMT may be released..
This chemical is the direct cause of dreams and visionary events during a NDE..


I agree with most everything else in your post except for this.  Strassman hypothesized that DMT causes the visionary states seen in NDEs, but this has not been confirmed by any study to date.  Moreover, the DMT experience and NDEs are quite different experentially speaking despite the existence of a few parallels.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: Kickle]
    #9993913 -

so your saying most diagnosed mental illnesses are just mental illnesses and nothing more?

do doctors even grasp what they possibly go through? i could be wrong but i bet most of em are divine just handled poorly...

Edited by Mastamike1118 (03/18/09 09:32 AM)

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: jivJaN]
    #9993981 -

jivJaN said:
Quote:
Which "reality" ? Whos reality ?


I believe this is a dream..
I believe there is no thing which is not thought manifested..
I have been in contact with some "imaginary friends" of my own..

And .. i have done everything else your normal person would do..
If you met me.. you would have no idea that you are speaking to a mad man.
Unless.. this "insanity" has knocked on your door as well..


so thought was more like pure consciousness manifested?

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Re: Mental illness: evolutionary defect or divine enlightenment? [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #9994087 -

Mastamike1118 said:
so your saying most diagnosed mental illnesses are just mental illnesses and nothing more?

do doctors even grasp what they possibly go through? i could be wrong but i bet most of em are divine just handled poorly...



No.
I'm saying that most mental illness is due to natural stressors that occur in the world. Death of a loved one, loss of job, abusive relationships, etc. Things that most people go through.

Then, psychotherapy speeds the recovery process up, helping people get back on their feet. Most people would get over these events on their own, but psychotherapy speeds it up. Why it speeds the process up is hotly debated and research is our best chance at gaining insight. Certain individuals claimed it was just having someone willing to listen and feel empathy for you, so they controlled for that. It turns out that isn't the main factor. While it has an impact, it doesn't account for very much of the effect we see. So what does? Studies continue to look at the various aspects of therapy -- comorbidity (more than one disorder presenting symptoms), therapeutic alliance (patient/therapist relationship), individual factors such as motivation (do they want to be in therapy or were they coerced), intelligence (below a certain level of intelligence, behavioral therapy is more effective than insight based therapy), etc. The list of factors could go on and on and on. The end result is, the more research that is done, the more effective therapy becomes. The process is sped up as trends emerge. There are therapies that are so structured and effective (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for depression) that manuals have been created and every therapist can use the same treatment.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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