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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: teeter]
    #9839508 -

You think unhealthy people won't continue to reproduce?  Not likely.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Viveka]
    #9839645 -

If they don't exist, then they won't reproduce.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: teeter]
    #9839728 -

I thought "evolution" was a neutral word.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839743 -

What do you mean?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9839850 -

"Evolution" is "change"; but the debate doesn't seem to talk about change, but "progress".

Progress is really not an objective thing.
We might change, but if this evolution is progress or not is a very personal opinion.

Oh, and no, we are not going to stop evolving, I don't think so. We are less and less hairy, for example. : )

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839868 -

Quote:
prog⋅ress
advancement in general.


Quote:
ad⋅vance⋅ment
an act of moving forward.



I think that progress is at least somewhat objective. :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9839889 -

So what is "forward"?

Is it allowing more people to live?
Or is it allowing only the best to live?

Is it to control nature?
Or to follow nature?

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9839904 -

Are you suggesting that the current goals of progression, in terms of humanity, anyways, are to have an elite class of people control nature? What does "controlling nature" mean, and how is it any different than "following nature"?


How can nature benefit from allowing an exponentially increasing population of humans to live?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9839982 -

Anwer my questions, I will anwser yours. : )

It depends of how you consider nature. We could say that we are nature, the most succesful nature, and that crushing every other form of life is progress.

To "follow nature" would be what people call today "ecology".
To "control nature", what we tried to do for many years before the ecologist fashion.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that the current goals of progression, in terms of humanity, anyways, are to have an elite class of people control nature?


Nope.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9840014 -

So following nature is a science?


Would you say that controlling nature is the opposite of progression?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9840094 -

Quote:
So following nature is a science?


No, I was refering to ecology as how most of the people understand it - "save the trees".

Quote:
Would you say that controlling nature is the opposite of progression?


I don't know. Haven't made my opinion yet, but I would be likely to say that it is.

But why won't you answer my questions?

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9840120 -

"So what is "forward"?"

I'd say that "forward" is gaining more awareness and understanding.


"Is it allowing more people to live?
Or is it allowing only the best to live?"

Since I am a human, I'd say that it's whatever is best for the human race.


"Is it to control nature?
Or to follow nature?"

Quite possibly a little of both.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9840133 -

Poid said:
"So what is "forward"?"

I'd say that "forward" is gaining more awareness and understanding.


Do you really consider this objective?
Why do you say that the concept of progress is "somewhat" objective?

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9840155 -

Sorry to have to answer your questions with questions of my own, but:


Are facts subjective or objjective? If I say that "forward" is gaining more awareness and understanding of facts, how is this in any way subjective?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Turd]
    #9840725 -

Natural selection may not be affecting our species much right now but sexual selection still is.

There are fossil records that show species that go through long periods of stasis and then rapidly evolve, most likely due to drastic environmental changes, which the earth may soon face.
This is called punctuated equilibrium.

So no we will not stop evolving we are still evolving and in the near future may be pushed very rapidly into drastic changes and possibly cladogenesis.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: awesomebastard]
    #9842013 -

The latest Discover magazine had huge article on the current state of human evolution.


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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: learningtofly]
    #9842316 -

Short answer: no.

I'm surprised there's so much debate on this thread.  I guess most people truly don't grasp how slow and complex evolution is.  Homo sapiens have only been around for something like 10% of Earth's history...We have a real problem with understanding truly how insignificant we are in the universe.


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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Poid]
    #9842864 -

It depends of what you call "facts".
1+1=2 is objective.
"There are blue seas and green seas" is not.

About gaining more awarness and understanding, it's a personal opinion, therefore subjective.
Imagine someone who has an eudemonist position.
And who, like Kant, considers that devellopping reason leads to a certain misology, since more awarness and understanding does not necessarily bring positive thoughts.

From that point of view, progress is actually not in gaining more awarness and understanding.

What about an athlete who is not interested in philosophy, who wants to go always further and do better in his sport?
Progress is about training, getting better results and getting everytime closer to perfection.
No reasoning involved. In fact, sports are about concentration, reaction and spontaneity. Every time I would start thinking on the court, I would suck and end up in the bench.

This is why I think that progress is a completely subjective thing.

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Diploid]
    #9855091 -

The only evolutionary steps left for human are disease control and more importantly an elevated level of consciousness. It is sad that those who use drugs are the only ones that can see the world from another set of eyes.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Re: are we going to stop evolving? [Re: Rocker232]
    #9855143 -

You're being closed-minded there; many people, many visions.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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