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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: giPSY]
    #9581040 -

True that.

But the same could be said for the existence of an invisible pink unicorn, no?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581065 -

What? My priest lied to me when he said that it was a pink unicorn that hurt my bum bum when I was 12?


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"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation." -- Dr. Arroway Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 162.


Join the movement! Click here to open your eyes

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581073 -

Isn`t the unicorn a myth - human`s creation ?

I`m wondering about the invisible pink part. If it`s not visible how could it be pink haha


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:peace: Red Rhythmic Earth :peace:

Edited by giPSY (01/10/09 01:43 AM)

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581076 -

deCypher said:
No evidence whatsoever suggests the existence of a metaphysical being.


We are metaphysical beings.  Methinks you don't understand what "metaphysical" means.


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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9581079 -

Please elaborate.  Are you saying we have no concrete physical existence?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581087 -

Metaphysics is an area of philosophical inquiry that involves questions about what reality consists of.  Naturalism and Materialism are just as much metaphysical theories as idealism and dualism are.


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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9581088 -

But implying that something is metaphysical assumes that that something is beyond the physical, no?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581089 -

deCypher said:
But implying that something is metaphysical assumes that that something is beyond the physical, no?


No.  That would be "extraphysical" or "transphysical," or simply "nonphysical."  Again, you need to look up the word.  It doesn't mean what you think it means.


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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9581098 -

Metaphysics: that which is beyond objective experience.

This is simply quibbling with semantics.  Meta implies something beyond; physics implies that which is physical.  If you are inferring that consciousness is beyond physical, I must agree with you... but to say that we are solely metaphysical beings denies our material reality IMO.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581100 -

Actually, I apologize.  After looking it up in Webster's Dictionary, definition #2 for "metaphysical" fit your idea of what means, while definition #1 fit my idea.  So we're both right.  We are still metaphysical beings under the primary definition of the word, but not in the sense that you're using it.


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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9581102 -

How do you incorporate consciousness into a materialistic worldview, if you don't mind my asking?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581116 -

deCypher said:
How do you incorporate consciousness into a materialistic worldview, if you don't mind my asking?


I don't.  I believe in panexperientialism.  However, there are a number of ways physicalists try to do it.  There's eliminative materialists like Daniel Dennet, who seem to just flat out deny a lot of blatantly obvious facts about consciousness because they're not scientifically observable.  I never understand what they hell those people are thinking.  Then there's emergentism, which talks about consciousness as an emergent phenomenon, like weather or color or temperature.  The problem with this is that while an emergent property is greater than the sum of its parts, it is still related to its parts.  So for consciousness to emerge out of unconscious matter seems a bit strange to me.  That's why I think all matter possesses some degree of subjectivity, and consciousness is an emergent property of subconscious matter coming together in away that produces a higher level of awareness.


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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9581120 -

Agreed.  But the consequences of putting such a viewpoint into practice seem rather strange, in my estimation.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581568 -

deCypher said:
How do you incorporate consciousness into a materialistic worldview, if you don't mind my asking?


1. waves of electrical energy interfering with each other in the cerebral cortex because of sensory and memory signals.
2. more waves from more memory signals and more sensory signals.
3. self (consciousness) is an illusion generated from this.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9581772 -

deCypher said:
I see no ultimate truth in the placid and ultimately monotonous bliss of Zen contemplation.....C'mon, ask me a question and the Oracle will give you Truth.


Two questions, actually: Was it ever implied that you should find "ultimate truth" in Zen contemplation, and, secondly, how have you determined that it is accurate for you to use the adjective "Zen" to describe such contemplation?


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: Mufungo]
    #9581778 -

Aw, aren't the pub and OTD enough for silly stuff?

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: deCypher]
    #9582157 -

Your extimation is unprecise. You have to experience it, to precise it. There is no extimation, you just have to get it on.


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:peace: Red Rhythmic Earth :peace:

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Re: I am wholly unenlightened. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9582372 -

redgreenvines said:
3. self (consciousness) is an illusion generated from this.


Still quite the leap from material electromagnetism to phenomenal experience, no?

fireworks_god said:
Two questions, actually: Was it ever implied that you should find "ultimate truth" in Zen contemplation, and, secondly, how have you determined that it is accurate for you to use the adjective "Zen" to describe such contemplation?


Poetic hyperbole.  :gethigh:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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