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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"?
#5718396 - 06/06/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm about 2 months deep into Jung's work, and he makes numerous references on ways to observe the anima/animus in action, and that:
Quote:
Many of them appear spontaneously in dreams ... and can be made concious through active imagination. In this way we find that thoughts, feelings and affects are alive in us which we would never have believed possible. Naturally, possibilities of this sort seem utterly fantastic to anyone who has not experienced them himself, for a normal person "knows what he thinkg." Such a childish attitue on the part of the "normal person" is simply the rule, so that no one without experience in this field can be expected to understand the real nature of anima and animus.
Now, I think I understand what Jung means when seperating the idea of shadow and anima/animus (as described in another text). Basically, the shadow is an alter-ego if you will.. that holds values that are typically in direct contrast with the values of a person, or at least representing elements of his/her unconscious.
The anima/animus concept (while not being new to me), is only now starting to become accessible, at least in the way it is presented by Jung. Anima / Animus (or Eros / Logos) seem to be the female/male roles placed on the priority of intuition over contemplation, or vice versa.
the question is, what was Jung referring to when he said "thoughts, feelings and affects are alive in us which we would never have believed possible. Naturally, possibilities of this sort seem utterly fantastic to anyone who has not experienced them?"
this sounds like an allegorical cave of sorts, in the context of psychology... but at the same time, he seems to be referring to a distinct, intoxicating ability to step outside of one's own paradigm ad observe.
Does anyone know of some more esoteric(?) works from Jung that go deeper into this, or perhaps related topics?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Fospher
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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: kotik]
#5719107 - 06/06/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most people walk around with a mask their entire life, and when circumstances change and they need to mold to a different type of crowd in atmosphere, they will change the mask. We are a pack animal, and most would do anything but stand out, so they hide all their emotions, their true feelings behind a mask. What hides behind the colorful masquarade however is the person hideous bitter feelings, their grudges, their ego.
The sad thing is, most people are not even aware of their mask's existence, and require a catalyst to actually peek inside to uncover their hidden secrets. I don't think it's bad, per se, to wear a mask, but you should realize that you are wearing one.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: Fospher]
#5719322 - 06/06/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I feel as if I am neither man nor woman. Though I am man. I feel more woman on the inside.
Does this denote anima/animus balance? Because I feel like I am severely lacking something...... but as far as internal psyche goes I feel like neither gender entirely fits.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: kotik]
#5719537 - 06/06/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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the question is, what was Jung referring to when he said "thoughts, feelings and affects are alive in us which we would never have believed possible. Naturally, possibilities of this sort seem utterly fantastic to anyone who has not experienced them?"
I think he may be refering to the conscious mind accessing/observing/experiencing the symbolism of the unconscious mind.
What book(s) are you reading now?
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5720975 - 06/06/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Most people walk around with a mask their entire life, and when circumstances change and they need to mold to a different type of crowd in atmosphere, they will change the mask. We are a pack animal, and most would do anything but stand out, so they hide all their emotions, their true feelings behind a mask. What hides behind the colorful masquarade however is the person hideous bitter feelings, their grudges, their ego.
ok, but that is a mask.. not having anything to do with eh anima/animus concept. same guy, just 2 different concepts completely.
Quote:
What book(s) are you reading now?
currently.. portable jung translated by Joseph Campbell
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: kotik]
#5726514 - 06/08/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unconsciousness as a brain function, is not directly available to our conscious mind. Subconsciousness is partly available. We don't exactly know, what is going on in our unconsciousness world, but we can bring into consciousness through the subconsciousness. Our unconsciousness is part of all the human evolutionary experience of man from bacterium to mankind, and information can get from there to us. Also, I think Jung proposed some kind of 'matrix', where all the humans were connected through the unconscious information and constantly feeding it back, not only getting information out of it. All the Jung archetypes, the archetypes of human kind, the archetypes of existence may be found in the unconscious matrix and are part of ourselves.
I think, that was what Jung meant.
The 'shaddows' I can see as, mushman say, as images from the unconscious in the subconscious. But I don't know about the Jungian description of them. Care to elaborate on them a bit ? Perhaps he took some parts of the Freudian superconsciousness, the Über-Ich the super-me and projected it from Freuds light into the archetypal subconsciousness ? I don't know
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anima / Animus archetypes vs "shadow"? [Re: kotik]
#5726699 - 06/08/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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People without a background in the field of depth psychology take their "persona" as the 'real me.' As others here have said, the persona is a 'mask,' literally, in the Greek, and it means 'through sound.' Our words often issue forth as though from a PC mask. Whether through dreams which disturb the dreamer, or through the practice of active imagination, of will encounter aspects of oneself (i.e., Shadow elements) which will surprise and shock the individual.
As contra-persona[l] elements, criminals, for example, whose outer lives are lived sociopathy, will have Shadows that illustrate decent, healthy or saintly qualities. I (for example) am heterosexist to some degree (not homophobic but clearly straight), yet I once encountered my Shadow in the form of a brown leather-jacketed street hustler, under an elevated train, which I interpreted as being Queens, NY! Now, all of these elements are significant to me: New York street life being the most intense, [Queen]s indicating a repressed sexual identity of my Shadow, brown leather has always been my preference over black - on me - so the character is symbolically identified with me. I would never sell my ass to a man, but my Shadow would, 'under' an elevated train. The elevated track is above me, I am 'below' the elevated (high) track as in 'career track' as a sleazy male whore. Train itself has the sexual connotation of multiple individuals who line up (as train cars) to f**k someone. More could be amplified from the single image. Goes to show what 8 years of Jungian analysis brings to bear .
As to anima and animus, let me recommend a little book by Jung's wife Emma Jung entitled Animus and Anima.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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