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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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LC Cloning vs Isolating
    #9370491 -

I know the two are quite different, but in terms of what they accomplish (artificially selecting prolific fruiters/fast growers) are they just two paths to the same goal?


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I need rising sound … And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to throw that fuckin' radio into the tub with me!

My newb experiences and tips to other newbs

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Lurksponge]
    #9370498 -

Well from everything I've read, they're pretty similar, and both should achieve similar results.  But cloning a fruit could still have multiple strains, whereas isolating is only 1 strain.  I'm not sure how likely it is for a fruit to have multiple, but it's definitely possible as RR has pointed out.

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: J3illy]
    #9370502 -

Well, anyway when you clone a fruit you will know all the substrains in it will be able to produce fruits. There won't be any "impotent" strains...


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"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: dead]
    #9370511 -

Yea from grows I've seen, cloning works out really well.
You definitely know what you're gonna be getting, and w/ a nice even pin-set.

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: J3illy]
    #9370531 -

Thanks for the speedy responses! I was expecting as much, but just wanted to verify. Have an insanely rhizomorphic jar going right now and was going to case n fruit it, then take the biggest of the lot and clone that into some LC for further batches.

Once you've knocked up all your jars with the LC from the clone, can you just do g2g thereafter? Or would it be beneficial to measure the size of the fruit and continuously select larger fruits for further cloning?


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I need rising sound … And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to throw that fuckin' radio into the tub with me!

My newb experiences and tips to other newbs

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: dead]
    #9370586 -

dead said:
Well, anyway when you clone a fruit you will know all the substrains in it will be able to produce fruits. There won't be any "impotent" strains...


there are no "substrains in a fruit" - you isolate for this very purpose of CLONING
the ONE AND ONLY genetic makeup of THAT ONE organism.


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

Edited by ohmatic (12/05/08 05:03 AM)

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9370606 -

ohmatic said:
dead said:
Well, anyway when you clone a fruit you will know all the substrains in it will be able to produce fruits. There won't be any "impotent" strains...


there are no "substrains in a fruit" - you isolate for this very purpose of CLONING
the ONE AND ONLY genetic makeup of THAT ONE organism.


Isnt it still possible to have cloned tissue sector though??


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PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9370615 -

veda_sticks said:
Isnt it still possible to have cloned tissue sector though??


what ?


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9370618 -

ohmatic said:
veda_sticks said:
Isnt it still possible to have cloned tissue sector though??


what ?


Not that long ago someone said that a mushroom fruitbody growin from multispore could be made up from more than 1 strain of mycelium and that when cloned could produce sectoring though rare.

Cant remember who, but have heard a few people repeat this. Obviosuly the misinformation that i havent spotted then.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9370620 -

2 spores meet, produce dicaryotic myc and this eventually produced a fruitbody.
its got one genetic makeup.


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9370621 -

ohmatic said:
dead said:
Well, anyway when you clone a fruit you will know all the substrains in it will be able to produce fruits. There won't be any "impotent" strains...


there are no "substrains in a fruit" - you isolate for this very purpose of CLONING
the ONE AND ONLY genetic makeup of THAT ONE organism.


A fruits are known to sometimes be made up of more than one strain. You still have to sectorize on agar to make sure you have a single strain isolate.

Also, another problem of cloning vs sectoring on agar is that your master tissue will already be over a month  old if you clone, and that will limit the amount of transfers you will be able to make before senescense starts to appear.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Nibin]
    #9370644 -

proof, i demand it !


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9370668 -

I've never seen a tissue clone sector on agar myself...only one substrain need apply during fruit body production.

Awhile back when I first got into agar work I asked if I could take a clone from a prolific fruiting multispore inoculated grain/coir tub and then isolate it out even further on agar, the universal response was, no.


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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9370831 -

Quote:
As for cloning vs strain isolation, they're not related. By the time a substrate fruits, hundreds or perhaps thousands of strains have exchanged DNA, either weakening or strengthening the mass. What you get is a 'heinz 57' that may or may not be that great because the weaker genes and the stronger genes(mycelium) have all combined. An example would be mixed breed dogs. We've all seen good examples and others that are dumber then hell.

Strain isolation on agar begins when the spores first start to germinate. I make the first transfers as soon as I can see mycelium growing from the point of inoculation, long before sectoring can be detected. By doing this, and by continuing to separate each individual growth, you can isolate mycelium prior to the process of anastomosis combining dikaryons into a single mass.

You don't isolate looking for one super rhizomorphic strain. You isolate down to single sectors and then fruit out each one to determine the best performer. When you transfer mycelium to a grain master, the original petri dish the mycelium was taken from is placed into a clean refrigerator. By doing this, when you find the best performing strain, you then go back to your well marked petri dishes, thus your original P1 culture. This petri dish can be used to inoculate a few test tube slants that can be incubated for a week, then placed in cold storage. Whenever you need mycelium, a tiny piece the size of a grain of rice can be taken from the test tube and put on agar to grow out, while the test tube is placed back into the refrigerator. These stored test tube cultures preserve the low P value of your isolated strain for years.

I have a complete video tek on strain isolation and master slant preparation and use already filmed. I'll release it when I get the rest of the teks filmed, and editing completed. Hopefully soon.
RR


Quote:
Yes. More than one strain can be present in an individual fruit. Thus, a clone is not an isolated strain, unless it was grown from an isolated line of mycelium.
RR


It's not only me that says this.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Nibin]
    #9371026 -

interesting cheers.


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: ohmatic]
    #9371237 -

amen, should have made the attempts then.


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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: HybridprX]
    #9372565 -

Most excellent. Thanks again for the clarification. Looks like LC cloning only helps you get more consistant results from your initial starting culture whereas isolation weeds out the crap before it has a chance.

Makes me want to pickup some new syringes/spore prints and start on some agar work. It's interesting how when you start out this hobby it's all about just getting things to work. Then the obsession grows for perfection and further experimentation.

Thanks again for all the info guys. I appreciate all the help the shroomery has given me thus far in my hobby.


--------------------
I need rising sound … And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to throw that fuckin' radio into the tub with me!

My newb experiences and tips to other newbs

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Lurksponge]
    #9372881 -

In either case, cloning is way better than starting from multispore.

If you make a big LC from a good fruit you can inoculate pounds and pounds of substrate before you have to start off from spores again.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Nibin]
    #9373999 -

This question is not intended derogative, so please don't take it as such, but is RR supposed to be some mushroom "God" or "Guru" or something?  I mean, everyone quotes him and ONLY him when someone asks for proof.  Is it just because he can intelligently state his opinions (and make them sound more proven), or is there literally no one more experienced/knowledgeable here?

Again, don't flame me on this--it's not meant to be insultive, just an honest question.  I'm obviously not to "deep" into the mushroom community.  ^_^

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Re: LC Cloning vs Isolating [Re: Hallucinogenist]
    #9374094 -

He's a veteran pro mushroom guru, and a Mod here.  Any advice he gives is totally legit.  He's probably grown, tested, tried, researched everything out there.  He designed a totally automated FC - the Shotgun tub, and put out some DVD's titled "Lets Grow Mushrooms" which seem to be pretty popular.

If you wanna see him goto www.mushroomvideos.com

It's not to say no one else knows what they're talking about - but he's revered around here, lol.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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