WhiskeyClone said:

KrishnaDreamer said:

so you're saying that anyone can become a millionaire? what if everyone becomes a millionaire? then a million dollars becomes a penny!

nope, in our current system, someone's got to get the short end of the stick. the man with the top-hat pays the shoe-shiner a penny from the 10 cents he charged from the shoe-shiner!

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Anyone, yes. Everyone, no.

There is a short end, of course.  But able-bodied and able-minded people who live with the short end do so because they settled for it.  Financial wealth is there for those who find it important enough to invest their time in obtaining it.  The how-to information is out there, for free, in libraries, on the internet and in the heads of those millions of people who have done it.  But to most, ease and complacency are worth more that the time and effort it takes.  Blame is always easier than accountability.

Where Mr Moneybags get the top hat?  Chances are it wasn't from his daddy.  He probably spent some time shining shoes but decided he didn't want to do it his whole life.  He probably then spent his free hours learning how to provide enough value to others to make a profitable business.

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WhiskeyClone said:

KrishnaDreamer said:

whose the real thief: the man who shoplifts that which he cannot afford? or the man who exploits others and sells a product which costs 10 cents to make and sells it at an enormous profit?

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Two wrongs make a right?  Is that really your argument?

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The heart of this argument seems to be that in order for one person to gain something valuable another needs to loose it. Supporters of personal wealth most likely argue that its justified because of the risk of loss involved. While opponents might argue that it is not fair for one person to better themselves at the cost of others or the whole group, especially when they are in an advantageous position to begin with.

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A man inherits his fathers estate and rents the property to supplement his income. Is this man justified in the money he is earning or is it theft?. He did not found or establish any of the value nor did he initially put in any risk of failure, he has simply inherited the value and responsibility by default, does this make him a business man or a thief? (to add further confusion, what if the mans father purchased the land at an "unfair" value during a time when laws and standards were not in effect)

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How can you justify investors and businessmen who make money from their current money supplies through legalized forms of usury, and at the same time detest those who utilize their own means of gaining material wealth (theft!) with the same if not worse risks involved (jail! death! or an ass kicking!)

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WhiskeyClone said:

The distribution of wealth in the US is a function of their economic policies.  I don't agree with all of them.

Can you explain how any of this justifies stealing from people?

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Irdamage said:

Rigid view points that don't take the human condition into account suck much...much worse.

My analogy of world resources: A pie shared among 4 people. The pie is cut in quarters and 1 person takes 3/4's and divides the last 1/4 among the other 3 people. He is allowed to do this because he was the first to grab his pieces.

Those 3 people are pissed, hungry, aren't getting their fare share and are now going to steal pie from each other and try to steal it from the man with 3/4's. Even if he worked very hard to find and take his pieces.

I want some pie now...

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The Cypher said:

How is not needing justification equivalent to not giving a fuck?

That way leads to nihilism; hedonism is far better.

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WhiskeyClone said:

I am not arguing that first sentence.  People who make money in legitimate business do one thing: they offer something that people are willing to voluntarily pay for.  There's the secret everybody, it's out.  Provide something of value to people and people will pay you for it.  What here needs to be justified?

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Somebody spending money is not 'losing money.'  They have decided that it is a fair trade: this product for this amount of money.

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???
Making money off of something that was given to you is theft now?  A dad builds a lemonade stand for his kid, does that make him a thief?  BTW being a landlord is work, ask one.

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How many times have I said this: your victim's crimes do not excuse yours.  Usury is by definition exploitative; it usually refers to charging illegally high interest rates.  Are you telling me it is safe to assume any given big corporation is guilty of this?  Not that it matters.  Stealing from Mother Theresa or stealing from Charles fucking Manson, it's still theft.

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Kickle said:

Play your cards the way you will, but stealing when you don't need to is not going to provide you any long term favors.

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WhiskeyClone said:

Hahaha... there is no country with a police force that is 'strong enough' to protect everyone's possessions.  Sorry, most of the time we are on our honor, and if we want others to refrain from stealing from us, maybe we'd do best to hold ourselves to those same standards.  If you are a human being, morality is part of the picture.  If you don't believe in morality, good luck coexisting with six billion people.

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