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Radical Honesty
    #8924667 -

Good Article.  Its funny but brings up some good points.  Lying in today's society is like an epidemic.  Many 'weak' relationships you think you have could be strengthened just by removing this little barrier that both parties are taking part in.  They might not know that each of them are lying, but the know that they are and it makes you not want to be around that person cause lying is somewhat damaging to yourself. 

That may be why the OTD builds such strong relationships.  People aren't hindered by this barrier.  They say what is on their mind and the other person respects them for it. 

We don't always lie about deeply damaging things.  These fibs, or white lies that we all commit should end.  Truly radical honesty may be a little much but who knows what Brad Blanton has done in his practice with radical honesty


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Customize your Shroomery experience!
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: Idiot]
    #8925139 -

I like it. I've always held the view that there's really nothing to hide or hold back and that it's better to just say whats on my mind at all times. This has gotten me in trouble, for example, my boss thinks i'm mouthy and thus doesn't want to have me back to work over the winter. oh well. If his little ego is too delicate to man up and take it when I'm just being direct instead of dancing around and dressing up my feelings I don't need to spend another moment in his presence. It's worth it. I still need to work into it, get over a few more fears and just get into total honest balls out. I'm on that edge though, it's felt so good to tear down barriers and just spout off what i'd have previously kept hidden that it probably won't be hard to just roll with it. Telling the truth is a rush.

Of course, like the interviewee said in the article, one should still lie to cops, tax collectors and landlords when necessary. honesty is for personal relationships, not for those in a position of laying charges or serving eviction notices.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: Idiot]
    #8925200 -

The hard part is many of us lie very subtly when we don't even know it.  Anyone can make a commitment to quit lying to others and themselves, and they can remain in the belief that they aren't lying, but will this take them to an understanding of their more subtle lies?

Edited by SyntheticMInd (09/13/08 09:08 PM)

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8925549 -

i wish i could lie to myself as easily as i can to others


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channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: Idiot]
    #8925594 -

No-one ever tells the whole, complete truth.

Lying is a way of infecting your reality into others.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: demiu5]
    #8925690 -

I'm always lying to myself.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8925735 -

Quote:
No-one ever tells the whole, complete truth.


Quote:
I'm always lying to myself.


I don't think it is possible to speak whole truths.

Because they do not exist.

People talk a lot about the merits of complete honesty, and speaking ones mind.
I think often this has nothing to do with respect for honesty but a selfish desire to vent and purge ones own waste, *ahem* thoughts...

I am a fan of tactful honesty, especially when I care for someone. Perhaps this is wrong. :shrug:.

There is a time and place for everything.


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Goodbye Shroomery.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8925754 -

SyntheticMInd said:
I'm always lying to myself.


i can lie to myself, but i rarely believe the lies

i have a friend who can often believe his own lies to himself.  i've witnessed him fully convince himself of somethings in order to get by/perform actions.  craziness


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channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: demiu5]
    #8925870 -

demius said:
i can lie to myself, but i rarely believe the lies


:thumbup:

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8925873 -

figmentfragment said:
People talk a lot about the merits of complete honesty, and speaking ones mind.
I think often this has nothing to do with respect for honesty but a selfish desire to vent and purge ones own waste, *ahem* thoughts...


so true :thumbup:

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8926049 -

SyntheticMInd said:
I'm always lying to myself.

Who is there, separate from your self, to lie?


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: Lion]
    #8926113 -

My egocentric mynd.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8926297 -

More on lies:

Quote:
There is all kinds of politics--geopolitiks; American politics, etc. and then there exists the petty politics of internet fora, cliques, male chauvinsts, chattering cliques--socialization fora, i.e. 'I had a cup of coffee today'--that kind of thing. These socialization fora comprise, generally speaking, the pseuds, the concocted cockamamie persona, the cybersexual garbage comprised of porn pix, etc. etc.

It is the petty politics IMO that drives the chattering classes--to indulge their egocentric lies and fakery, to adorn themselves with plastic embodiments so as to preen and posture like madmen/madwomen as they live out their fantasy worlds of make believe in cyberspace.


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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8926567 -

Why is it assumed that lieing is inherently bad? Is it not the the intentions that truly matter?

figmentfragment said:
There is a time and place for everything.


Precisely.


figmentfragment said:
I am a fan of tactful honesty, especially when I care for someone. Perhaps this is wrong. :shrug:.


And I am a fan of tactful lies, especially when i care for someone. Perhaps this is wrong... but i think not.



Suppose you we're harboring a familly of Jews during the Holocaust. One day a Nazi soldier knocks on your door and asks "Are there any Jews in your house?" should you be "brutally honest"? or is better to lie?


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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8926593 -

if you read the article you would have noticed that he used that exact example as a case in which lying is of course appropriate. radical honesty, according to the article, is for personal relationships. it isn't meant to extend to situations in which it would help some dickbag authority figure pull a power trip. lying to cops is a matter of principle. :smirk:

there are so many times in which harsh honesty is ultimately beneficial. i have learned so much more about myself when friends who find something about me annoying and lovers who are leaving me have honestly told me why instead of copping out with an easy letdown. full honesty gives people an opportunity to become more fully aware of how they effect people they are close to and the tools with which to make necessary changes.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8926614 -

hamandcheese said:
Why is it assumed that lieing is inherently bad?


Because we like to name things that just are.

However nobody wants to be deceived.

Lies deceive, if you are a fan of tactful lies, you are a fan of tactful deception.

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8926624 -

yeah i was too lazy too read it.


i may or may not actually read it in its entirety now... just tryin to be honest


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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8926667 -

NiamhNyx said:
there are so many times in which harsh honesty is ultimately beneficial. i have learned so much more about myself when friends who find something about me annoying and lovers who are leaving me have honestly told me why instead of copping out with an easy letdown. full honesty gives people an opportunity to become more fully aware of how they effect people they are close to and the tools with which to make necessary changes.


I've been brutally honest in the past and hurt people because of this.  Especially when it comes to exposing someone's lies, right in their face.  Some of my past friends were so disgustingly deceiving in their attitude at times, it just felt right to clear things up and call them out.  It does hurt them, but it is for their own good.  Sometimes pain can lead to a good thing.  Growing pains?

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8926706 -

yes, exactly. of course this form of honesty is only beneficial if it is offered with good intentions. if it's meant to put you in a position of superiority, to win a fight, to sting, it's nothing more than cruel. if it is intended to radically transform the quality of one's relationships and its ultimately intended to strengthen rather than weaken, it is appropriate and important.

This quote pertains to the direction this conversation is taking:

"Existenz is realized only in communication, and this occurs in situations that change with the passage of time. The silent accord, the timeless union, the peace of intimate comprehension between Existenz and Existenz-- these are mere vanishing moments of a loving struggle caused by the obscurity of current situations... I must fight for manifestation to be assured of my being...There is no victory or defeat for one side; both win or lose jointly. Victory is not won by my superiority but by our common manifestion. Nor does defeat indicate a lack of strength; defeat lies in evasion, in hiding, and is due to unpreparedness for the crisis of my own volition and the other's. The slightest use of force, including intellectual superiority, for instance, or the power of suggestion, brings the loving struggle to an end... This struggle, this extreme jeopardizing of the other and of myself, is possible only on the basis of a solidarity which unquestioningly presupposes the possibility of Existenz in both of us." -Karl Jaspers, Phiosophy Vol.2 pg 212-13

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Re: Radical Honesty [Re: deranger]
    #8926712 -

Some of the most successful relationships are based on lies and deceit. Since that's where they usually end up anyway, it's a logical place to start.
--Lord of War


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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