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 DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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 painful honesty 
#5881511 - 07/20/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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One of the things I have learned and struggled to accept in my life is the necessity of honesty. I believe I am getting better at this, but it can be very hard sometimes!
Sometimes it is hard to be honest with others. We fear what others will think about us. We fear the reactions of others.
There are definitely things in my past that I am not proud of, and have tried to cover up.
But, what I have learned, is that dishonesty causes miscommunication, which more than likely results in bad things happening between people.
Often times, I have problems with others, but instead of adressing these problems, I hide and run from them. I sweep everything under the rug. I let all this negative energy build up and fester, which ultimately results in the whole thing blowing up in my face!
One thing I have learned is that everyone lies. They lie to eachother, and they lie to themselves. Its hard to be honest in a world full of liars. You come off as selfish and uncaring, or you come off as foolish and weak.
But still, I try to be honest, moreso each day, because I know that only true honesty can end miscommunications and the fuckups it can cause between people. One of the things that has forced me to become more honest is the fact that I have been lied to quite a bit in my life, and it hurts. I have fallen in love with a lie; I have been lied to 'for my protection'; I have even lied to myself just to get through the day. But it never solves anything, its just a postponement of dealing with the truth.
So here I am, shroomery. Vulnerable and exposed. I don't know everything. I get sad sometimes. I get frustrated sometimes. Some of you may see this and make fun of me, but I know deep down inside that you are the same. We all give off these false images of confidence and competance. But inside all of us, there is doubt, fear, imperfection. The only way to solve these problems is to communicate them honestly to others. Pretending to ourselves and others that we don't have problems only makes our problems worse.
Sometimes it is painful to be honest, but this pain is like a necessary surgery. Avoiding the surgery because of fear only makes the ailment worse.
So, the next time you think that you have to lie in a social or business situation, think to yourself: "Do I really have to do this? Why do I run from the truth? Why am I misleading others?" Once you have asked yourself this question enough times, you will realize that there is no point to dishonesty.
thank you.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 14 days
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 Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881555 - 07/20/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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this is a very important thing.
for me i leave things out because it's almost like i want to avoid communication altogether. this creates a huge sea of indiscrepancies and indiscretions and everything...
for instance if I am asked, so how was your day. I just take the no brainer route and say "fine" .... but you know, I could go into elaborate detail... why not?
What lies seem to is divorce us from the capability to feel and exchange emotion. I think this is why I find relatoinships (not that I've had many) so trite and dull..... consisting of just hainging out watching tv or jamming or whatever, but that there is this sense of disconnection...
because I think when we use shortcuts like
How are you: fine
what's up: not much
etc, we are basically using a prefabricated model of communication instead of really communicating on our own.
but really we would say... well i dunno... i've been kind of bored..... kind of feeling a bit like i don't have good connections to other people. i'm doing okay but i'm not doing how I should.
and sup? well, not a lot. i've been playing guitar, and it's like, i am not able to convey emotion or imagination properly through it, and i'm out of practice.
instead of "not much"
we get into habitual thinking. like there is a formula to everything, and we don't understand what lies behind the words.
it's also about the stratification of attention through media stimulation. when you are talking on the phone you might also be reading a webpage [and i do this ALL the time and it's a bad habit]..... or you know, if you are having a conversation in person you might be watching tv, and it's pacing dictates how much you will talk.
or when you are eating you aren't eating, you're reading the newspaper or something.
so, it's like we aren't "all there" when we communicate, so we're on auto-pilot, not really paying attention. communicatoin should actually involve emotional exchange, paying attention, and noticing subtle things that bridge the gaps from person to person.
such as accent, how words are said, etc. i often have a damned hard time really "listening" to anyone, because i'm off in my head somewhere.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (07/20/06 02:19 PM)
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Child_in_Time
Supernaught
Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 5
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: painful honesty [Re: leery11]
#5881631 - 07/20/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"For millions of years mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk... All we need to do is make sure we keep talking" Floyd. I think before you can be honest with someone else, you need to be honest with yourself. Thats the most difficult part. And you can only be honest with yourself if you truly know who you are.
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Tie your guilt up in little red ribbons and bows
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: painful honesty [Re: leery11]
#5881667 - 07/20/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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one thing I have noticed is that pride and fear of embarassment causes people not to admit when they need help.
and fear of reprisal and being ashamed causes people not to admit when they have done wrong and need to pay penance.
for me, I have much bigger problems with the first one. I mean like just recently I had some small problems with my car, and I was too prideful to ask for help even though I know about 10 zillion people who could easily help me out.
But in others, I have noticed a strong tendancy to have a problem with the second one. I mean, it seems so rare to me to find an indivudual who is always willing to admit when they are wrong and try to fix what they fucked up. This can be very aggravating to me at times.
But really, iIthink both kinds of dishonesty stem from fear and our misjudgements of how other people may react to an unpleasant truth.
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 LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881677 - 07/20/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So here I am, shroomery. Vulnerable and exposed. I don't know everything. I get sad sometimes. I get frustrated sometimes. Some of you may see this and make fun of me, but I know deep down inside that you are the same. We all give off these false images of confidence and competance. But inside all of us, there is doubt, fear, imperfection. The only way to solve these problems is to communicate them honestly to others. Pretending to ourselves and others that we don't have problems only makes our problems worse.
Doubt, fear, and imperfection are human traits that won't be solved. Sharing them may make your problems worse and not better. That and nobody wants to hear it. Trust me the more I confided to people when I felt all those traits the most, the less they wanted to hear it. So now that I am feeling confident (arrogant?) I express that and people don't want to hear that either.
So, if you really are concerned what other people think, take the time to talk it out. I really could give a fuck what most people think, they aren't worth worrying about.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/20/06 03:14 PM)
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malarki
Master Jack ofAll Trades,Realist
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
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We are all here to learn no one should be ashamed no question is stupid unless it goes unasked! 
The only peopole that give you attitude are the crabby ole goats! Screw them!
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~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: painful honesty [Re: malarki]
#5881701 - 07/20/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Careful I am a crabby old goat...
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881706 - 07/20/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
But inside all of us, there is doubt, fear, imperfection. The only way to solve these problems is to communicate them honestly to others. Pretending to ourselves and others that we don't have problems only makes our problems worse.
Actually, for some people, I do not believe this holds true. Everyone might have "problems", but "problem" is just a perception that assigns identity to a certain aspect of reality. Everyone is an individual that is constantly changing as one interacts with one's environment, and understanding this nature naturally alleviates judging aspects of oneself that arise as being "problems", and also feeling need to establish more identity for one's "problem" by expressing it to others so that it has consensual identity.
True leaders find "oppurtunities" in situations, others, and from within. The fact that we are changing as we experience implies transformation. Insight into our true nature as a constantly evolving being will make it clear that we should not establish much concrete identity for aspects of our behavior as they arise, because our constantly changing nature implies that we are on a path of evolution, of growth, of change... of transcendence from previous aspects of oneself, one's behavior, and one's identity.
This does not deny that people deal with issues, but confirms it, and yet it implies that one should be totally aware of the situation and the factors that support its existance, and then utilize the power granted to us by our true nature to change.
The difference between an oppurtunity and a problem exist within one's interpretation of the circumstance. An oppurtunity is perceived with a sense of knowing that one will work through it, that one will change from it, becoming more aware of reality - it stems from the realization that, hey, we change, and we learn as we do, so this isn't a "problem", it is a blessed oppurtunity for growth, for evolution, for enlightenment. 
Quote:
So, the next time you think that you have to lie in a social or business situation, think to yourself: "Do I really have to do this? Why do I run from the truth? Why am I misleading others?" Once you have asked yourself this question enough times, you will realize that there is no point to dishonesty.
It is important that an individual maintains a practical outlook on the aspects of one's life situation. In relating to others, it is perhaps more important that we focus on our similarities. Is it more honest to focus on communicating the differences? I think it is perhaps more honest to fully understand and realize the differences, but realize the living nature of our existance, and especially the nature of two individual, human beings interacting with each other in a blessed communion.
It is honest and more beneficial to realize the differences and the nature of those differences (why are they different?, for example), and to employ ways to interact with each other anyways, as everyone involved changes as they interact. It is through that interaction that we are most capable of changing reality, by bringing our awareness into it. If one effectively navigates reality, it becomes a playground in which everyone benefits from the nexus of awareness, conscious energy that resonates with more conscious, cosmic energy. If the differences are true differences, then, through this interaction and vibration of awareness, the differences will realize a way to respect each other and not impede upon each other, or perhaps the facets of oneself that support the difference will dissolve. Most differences simply result from one's mind obstructing the perception of reality as it is presented to us, and an increased level of awareness will naturally dissolve obstructive aspects of the mind. Thus, less differences to drain one's awareness. 
"Problems" are resultant from an abstract process that forms its imaginative identity, associating it with preconceptions of emotional programs in order to create its own reality. "Oppurtunities" realize the nature of reality and the situation occuring within and as reality, a perspective that results from directly perceiving reality without obstruction. Which one is more honest and enlightened? 
   
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: painful honesty [Re: malarki]
#5881754 - 07/20/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
malarki said:
We are all here to learn no one should be ashamed no question is stupid unless it goes unasked!
The only peopole that give you attitude are the crabby ole goats! Screw them!
Goats cannot create attitude in others. Attitude is entirely resultant from one's own mind. The attitude conveyed in "Screw them!" demonstrates who is indeed "giving attitude".
Attitude is an aspect of behavior, and attitude is sensed from behavior. I would personally find it considerably difficult to interpret attitude as being expressed by other individuals in an internet forum, since I do not have much evidence of their behavior. This is merely an exchange of words, and subsequent ideas and thoughts, and the most one can assume of the nature of the one expressing oneself is contained in the subtleties of their expression... which is a subtle game.  One does not brazenly propose who the other is in this forum if they are playing and perceiving a subtle game. 
Emoticons could perhaps give us more evidence of the nature of the other posters, but when you actively employ emoticons, you are decried for it!  Whoever established "the Rules" was apparently aware of this, but not those who wish to use this forum in ways that it was not designated for. In short, they wish to use others for their own ego game. Boo!  
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Career Oppurtunities
There are several career paths in the apparel merchandising field that you can choose based on your strengths and interests. You’re options are endless with a merchandising concentration. Whether you want to own your own clothing boutique or want to be a sourcing specialist, you will find a variety of career opportunities in the world of fashion.
Specialists in the apparel industry face challenges daily with both consumers and the economy. They work within the limitations of fabrics, budget, machinery, and market. They can forecast what consumers want and create the design and product before their competition. People in the apparel industry need to be technical, creative, hard working and competitive.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Goats cannot create attitude in others. Attitude is entirely resultant from one's own mind. The attitude conveyed in "Screw them!" demonstrates who is indeed "giving attitude".
while I agree that one must take responsibility for one's own emotions, one must also take responsibility for the emotions they effect in others.
thus, I must disagree that attitude comes solely from within the individual.
A truly receptive person is not just the product of himself, but is in actuality the product of both himserlf and his enviroinment.
Since other people are part of that environment, they are factors in the individual's mindstate.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Actually, for some people, I do not believe this holds true.
so then where is this perfect person? I would like to meet a person who is completely without flaw, so that I might take notes on their behavior
Quote:
True leaders find "oppurtunities" in situations, others, and from within.
to a certain extent, I mean there are some problems that I consider opportunities, like the aforementioned trouble with my car was an opportunity to learn about the design of my vehicle and mechanics in general,
but some situations are simply problems. Tell me, oh wise benevolent sage, where is the 'opportunity' in all the injustice in the world, the children starving while men like Bush live it up on the profits of war?
What you are saying here sounds great, but to what extent would you be willing to go in your own personal behavior to back it up? If I came into your house and jacked you in the knee with a wrench, would you thank me for the 'opportunity' to know what it feels like to have a smashed in kneecap?
Sorry, not to personally imply anything, but what you are saying struck me as very similar to what a person who preaches to the masses and dines with the classes would say. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country." This is something a politician says publicly while privately smoking the best cigars and drinking the finest champagne.
Sure, there is personal responsibility in one's own emotion. But there is also personal responsibility in one's own effect on the emotions of others, to a certain extent.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881853 - 07/20/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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In fact, a truly receptive person is the product of himself and the way that he interprets and regards his environment, not the environment itself. One does not experience one's environment, but yet one's perception of the environment and the interpretations of that perception.
"Attitude" does not lie inherent in behavior. It is expressed through behavior, and is interpreted as attitude by the observer, but attitude itself does not exist in the form that is expressing it. Attitude is far less about what the person is expressing, but incredibly more so concerning the value and meaning that the person doing the interpretation of the behavior is assigning to its perception.
For example, Swami was banned because of the attitude that others considered him to emanate, and also for behaving in certain manners, manners that are not evident in his behavior itself. His fate was dependant incredibly more so on the interpretations and assumptions formed by others.
Perhaps he was truly a viciously emotional troll (but anyone who interacted with him knew that this couldn't be farther from the truth), but it is important that we truly understand the role that we play in forming our conceptions of others' behavior. We need to ensure that we are interacting with each other in a way that does not overly define the other person, thereby obstructing our direct perceptions of who they are.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881875 - 07/20/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sure, there is personal responsibility in one's own emotion. But there is also personal responsibility in one's own effect on the emotions of others, to a certain extent.
How can I be personally responsible for the emotions of others? I can't control how someone will emotionally react. Maybe they are emotionally unstable.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881885 - 07/20/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
so then where is this perfect person? I would like to meet a person who is completely without flaw, so that I might take notes on their behavior
There is perfection amongst the imperfection, that continously works towards changing the imperfection. Like a perfect system exhibiting imperfect aspects... that's why it is a perfect system.
Quote:
but some situations are simply problems. Tell me, oh wise benevolent sage, where is the 'opportunity' in all the injustice in the world, the children starving while men like Bush live it up on the profits of war?
The oppurtunity to understand? If we are engaging in such behavior, it is evident that we lack a certain understanding that would naturally prevent such behavior. Thus, by exhibiting such behavior, we create an oppurtunity for us to learn why we are acting as such, to learn from our own mistakes.
It sounds like an oppurtunity for discovery and realization on a consensual level, an oppurtunity to change from the present situation and to better as a society.
To not realize this oppurtunity is to be sunk admist the "problem". One has effectively prevented oneself from being a catalyst for change.
Quote:
What you are saying here sounds great, but to what extent would you be willing to go in your own personal behavior to back it up? If I came into your house and jacked you in the knee with a wrench, would you thank me for the 'opportunity' to know what it feels like to have a smashed in kneecap?
There exist great oppurtunities that exist within that proposed situation as well, beyond the physical abuse. What would you learn from that experience? That people are inclined to jack you in the knee with a wrench, and that one must be sucipious that people are going to sneak up and jack you in the knee with a wrench, and also that you must carry a wrench and exist in an emotionally poisoned world of wrench jacks to the knees and wrenches and illusions of wrenches?
There is a cornucopia of oppurtunity to learn, grow, and evolve that is present within every moment and every experience - all dependant on how much one regards reality as something that can be learned from, and how much one reflects within in order to actively engage in the process of learning.
If all one can gain from an experience is pain, misery, increased seperation, and suffering, then one might consider not being as passive.
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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just because there are differences in the emotional makeup of others doesn't mean you are free from any responsibility to at least try and appease them (within reason, of course)
And wouldn't you agree that we are all connected, that there are social butterfly ffects, chain reactions, which basically point to the fact that a problem with the individual effects the entire group?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
How can I be personally responsible for the emotions of others? I can't control how someone will emotionally react. Maybe they are emotionally unstable.
If one takes on the presence of an observer, others will react to themselves through reacting to you. Bring awareness within, become a mirror to reality, and others will begin to know themselves through interacting with you.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Triplexiosis
Lachrymologist
Registered: 12/17/04
Posts: 199
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881893 - 07/20/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was quite dishonest a long time ago, it left scars (and a really thick web).
Quote:
"For millions of years mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk... All we need to do is make sure we keep talking" Floyd. I think before you can be honest with someone else, you need to be honest with yourself. Thats the most difficult part. And you can only be honest with yourself if you truly know who you are.
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"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Loc: Pandurn
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5881898 - 07/20/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
And wouldn't you agree that we are all connected, that there are social butterfly ffects, chain reactions, which basically point to the fact that a problem with the individual effects the entire group?
Exactly, there are, which is why it is best to regard the "problem" as being something that needs to be worked on and transcended, or else the person exhibiting the "problem" will continue to exist in disharmony with others, and continue to pose potential, negative situations as result of the "problem".
One could try to appease the problem, but it is only through promoting awareness through one's interactions, by being aware, that others will become aware and will utilize that awareness and understanding to dissolve unnecessary aspects of themselves that manifest the "problem", and to transcend the "problem", for the benefit of all.
If one is truly responsible, they will work with others in whatever manner necessary in order for the "problem" to be solved by them because, as you did indeed state, we are all connected in a mesh network of interaction.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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yes, the whole of humanity is like a giant energy field composed of smaller sub-fields which continually react with eachother to produce the complexity of the whole field.
But just because we are all one, does not mean that problems between our separate selves do not exist. You cannot let your spiritual understanding of the big picture distract you from the problems right in front of you.
I have fallen victim to this behavior quite a bit. Someone will wrong me, and I will think, "Ah, well, its no big deal, in the big scheme of things."
And for the most part, I am right. But in turning the other cheek I am being dishonest with both myself and others, by allowing bad things to happen to both myself and others via my example.
Thats why I have spent a great deal of my life pondering when it is appropriate to act or intervene, and when it is better merely to understand and stand down.
Evil triumphs because good men do nothing. Often, evil triumphs simply because good men say nothing. They hold their opinion back out of fear or trying to 'be the bigger man'.
Thus, I tend to keep my stance on both sides of the line, and realize that I must pick my battles wisely. In some cases, it is better to empathize and be quiet, and allow things I don't necessarily agree with to happen for the sake of others' gratification. But in other causes, one must abandon the mystical perspective and speak out, or even act, on behalf of what is right, just, and true. Sometimes, honesty is not pretty, or pleasant. But living with a lie for too long can be ultimately more unpleasant than fighting against it.
When one doesn't speak up for one's own moral values in the face of those without moral values, one is being a traitor to both oneself and his environment. He is playing along with something that he knows is wrong, and the ultimate outcome is worse for everyone because the best lacked all conviction, and the worst were full of passionate intensity.
And yes, though I do understand the zen principles of higher, more etherical dimensions, I must also admit that i currently reside in the third dimension of this reality, and in this place, there are most definitely right and wrong, good and evil. I refuse to be a fool. I refuse to let evil triumph just because I have issues with my own ability to morally judge others objectively.
I asked what opportunity would be created by the starvation of children, and you said: "So we might learn." But what are they learning? Do those kids deserve to suffer for our lesson? How could anyone justify the suffering of the innocent, for any reason whatsoever? And how could anyone justify profiting off the suffering of others? Perhaps we are all students of reality, but it seems to me that the wrong lessons are taught. People get worse all the time, simply because the wrong behavior is rewarded, and the proper behavior is punished.
You cannot let your 'enlightened' perspective of oneness blind you to the fact that there is still a struggle going on all around us. I don't know what your circumstances are, or how close you are to the streets, but I tend to keep my nose to the grindstone, and I see corruption all around me. Though I try to turn my other cheek, I can't help but see some heads which desparately need to roll.
I would like nothing more than to retire to one of my father's beach houses and sip little umbrella drinks and watch the hot chicks walk across the beach. This option is available to me. I could just sit back, be one in the sunlight, and try real hard to forget about the troubles of the world. Just push them out of my life, and try not to let them concern me.
But that would be living a lie. That would be swallowing the blue pill. Instead, I choose to live in a crooked city, and be a little light in the darkness. Though it is a thankless job, and many times I have been crucified for doing what I believed in, I will stand on this battleground and fight for what is right, because I care. There are people I care about here that don't have the option to run away to their rich daddies houses and meditate in the sun. So i stay in this hellhole for them. I risk my life for them. But moreso, I risk myself for the truth, because I would rather die fighting for what is true than live a lie.
sorry, don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I'm tired of this "Its all good, man" bullshit. Nah, nigga. Its not all good. If you think its all good, you havent fucking been there. We can't all just sit around and lie to ourselves that everything is OK. We have to realize that there is evil and injustice in the world, and stand up and fucking do something about it whenever we are able.
Edited by DoctorJ (07/20/06 08:45 PM)
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger
Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5885207 - 07/21/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do what?
I know there are starving children out there and I don't care.
If there is one thing that life has shown me is that there are no rules. There is nothing that says you can't do this or that. It's all up to us, and if enough people wanted to we probably could alleviate world hunger by simply switching to a vegetarian diet.
But seriously, I think wha t you're doing is a good thing and you should continue.
I myself am content to work hard and not cause problems with those I encounter, even if that means lying occasionally.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5885297 - 07/21/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If one starts behaving to appease the emotional needs of whatever group of people one is in, one might as well count oneself as a sheep.
Baaahhh!
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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sometimes its necessary to keep the peace.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5886704 - 07/22/06 04:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
But just because we are all one, does not mean that problems between our separate selves do not exist. You cannot let your spiritual understanding of the big picture distract you from the problems right in front of you.
Like I have already stated, it is not a problem, it is an oppurtunity. The fact that differences do occur amongst individuals does not imply one appropriate response to the situation. My point is that maintaining an understanding of the true nature of reality will empower an individual to become more effective in handling the situations that one becomes present, in one's life. The response to one's "problems" will be more beneficial to onself and one's situation.
Quote:
I have fallen victim to this behavior quite a bit. Someone will wrong me, and I will think, "Ah, well, its no big deal, in the big scheme of things."
I am not proposing a refusal to address circumstances in one's life, by simply shrugging one's shoulders and saying "oh well, it doesn't mean anything from a higher perspective". I am stating that, if one employs a higher perspective in interpretating a given situation and utilizing that insight to consciously choose one's response in the interaction, then one will be more effective at producing beneficial change.
Quote:
And for the most part, I am right. But in turning the other cheek I am being dishonest with both myself and others, by allowing bad things to happen to both myself and others via my example.
No one has spoken of "turning the other cheek". There are appropriate responses to given situations, and no one is denying this or speaking agansit this. One simply proposes that the outlook one has on given situations naturally effects the way that someone will respond to given situations. An outlook that considers our state of constant flux realizes that we have an oppurtunity to constantly learn and improve ourselves, by using reality as a model, a lesson, a field in which we can theorize of the nature of reality, consciously act within reality, observe the occurence, and apply our gathered insight.
It is in this light that one does not see "problems" that are suffered through, but yet opportunties, which provide the maximum amount of benefit to oneself, in understanding reality, and applying that understanding to further oneself and reality.
Quote:
Evil triumphs because good men do nothing. Often, evil triumphs simply because good men say nothing. They hold their opinion back out of fear or trying to 'be the bigger man'.
As I have stated, there are appropriate responses to given situations. 
Quote:
But in other causes, one must abandon the mystical perspective and speak out, or even act, on behalf of what is right, just, and true. Sometimes, honesty is not pretty, or pleasant. But living with a lie for too long can be ultimately more unpleasant than fighting against it.
"The mystical perspective" is an outlook that reflects reality as it has presented itself. Why would one abandon one's understanding of reality in order to act? The point is that one consciously utilizes an encompassing understanding of reality to truly understand the circumstances of the situation - thus enabling oneself to choose the most appropriate, beneficial response to the situation. This is not "living a lie", and it is not "pleasant". It simply is.
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And yes, though I do understand the zen principles of higher, more etherical dimensions, I must also admit that i currently reside in the third dimension of this reality, and in this place, there are most definitely right and wrong, good and evil. I refuse to be a fool. I refuse to let evil triumph just because I have issues with my own ability to morally judge others objectively.
Your existance is limited to merely one dimension of reality?  Actually, that explains a lot.
Quote:
I asked what opportunity would be created by the starvation of children, and you said: "So we might learn." But what are they learning? Do those kids deserve to suffer for our lesson? How could anyone justify the suffering of the innocent, for any reason whatsoever? And how could anyone justify profiting off the suffering of others? Perhaps we are all students of reality, but it seems to me that the wrong lessons are taught. People get worse all the time, simply because the wrong behavior is rewarded, and the proper behavior is punished.
No one is attempting to justify anything in their situation. Reality exists as it is, and we can gain whatever we wish from that. Reality itself does not require justification, will not provide justification, and will not operate with a sense of justification. Things happen. All we can do from that is learn how things happen, choose what we would like to happen, and make it happen. Thus, the only thing we can do from any given situation is learn from it in order to further what we make happen. Eh? It is not necessary to moan "But what of the starving children?!" as though it negates anyone's point that pertains to a higher understanding of reality.
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You cannot let your 'enlightened' perspective of oneness blind you to the fact that there is still a struggle going on all around us.
This "enlightened perspective of oneness" cannot blind, as it is one's direct perception of reality as it occurs. Aspects of the mind blind one from this direct perception. This perspective does not negate that there exists a struggle within almost everyone, but realizes the true nature of this, and thus beckons those with this perspective to interact with others in manners that will directly offer resolution to this suffering.
The entire point: Someone who understands reality will be more capable of navigating reality, in applying that understanding to further reality. To become more aware of the nature of reality, one is more able to act in ways that are in accordance with that nature. If you learn how to swim, you are more able to swim.
Quote:
sorry, don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I'm tired of this "Its all good, man" bullshit. Nah, nigga. Its not all good. If you think its all good, you havent fucking been there. We can't all just sit around and lie to ourselves that everything is OK. We have to realize that there is evil and injustice in the world, and stand up and fucking do something about it whenever we are able.
Nice tangent, but yet I fail to understand how it applies to what has been proposed in the slightest. One would think that, if one truly understood the nature of the unfavorable situation you describe, then one would be more empowered to interact in that situation in order to produce the desired change. Would you agree with that? That, if you know why that person hates others, then perhaps one would be more able to respond to alleviate the cause of that exhibited behavior?
I'm not so much thinking that you disagree with what I have proposed (mainly because it makes sense), but rather that you are deciding to address a different subject then the ideas and view that I have expressed. You seem to be proposing points agansit adopting a view of complacency, choosing to ignore the "ugly" aspects of reality in order to feel good about life, while I am proposing truly becoming aware of the present moment and all that is existing within it, in order to truly understand the aspects of reality, so that one is capable of choosing to interact in the present moment in the most beneficial manner, the way that will provoke the most preferred change.
The viewpoint that I am expressing is one of actively seeking to participate in reality in order to better it, almost directly opposed to that of choosing to ignore reality in order to feel as those it has been bettered, which is exactly why I am confused as to why you seem to think I am supporting such a view. 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Blump. 
Merry Christmas everyone, I thought everyone might need to read some interesting discussion on how to become a conduit of effective, transformative change.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Blump.
Merry Christmas everyone, I thought everyone might need to read some interesting discussion on how to become a conduit of effective, transformative change.
Merry Christmas Sexy Butt McDanger
I have the most wonderful Christmas, being with you and loving you in every way and you are so wonderful and sweet and sexy 
And now you're being naughty and ask too many questions! 
For that I will just have to eat you alive  ... well, for that, and for everything else.
I love you sweet heart, I love being with you and I love being one with you
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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"Just the facts, Ma'am"
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
How can I be personally responsible for the emotions of others? I can't control how someone will emotionally react. Maybe they are emotionally unstable.
If one takes on the presence of an observer, others will react to themselves through reacting to you. Bring awareness within, become a mirror to reality, and others will begin to know themselves through interacting with you.
Peace.
not necessarily.. you can only be a mirror if the other person stops projecting an identity on to you. you can't force someone to do that...
i'm saying this from experience because enlightened individuals have tried to reflect myself back at me to make me see the error of my ways and all the while i was trying to understand their intentions.. lol 
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Well I have to agree lunar. I have been fortunate and only felt to necessity to seek a council once, I was in hindsight badly in need of some help, but also in hindsight found that I had to get myself out of the mess I was in....and I did.
Most of the really mixed up people I have met are into advising others, scares the fuck out of me every time. Also takes away a "backstop" if it all goes wrong, but that's just me. I realize others benefit from these services. Despite my experiences the following seems to make sense.
No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.
Hunter S. Thompson
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