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Honesty
    #5650088 -

Honesty is like a tool. In some cases it is useful, and in others it can be unskilful. Usually in our modern lives, we have to constantly juggle honesty with the need to prevent harm coming to others. For instance, if being honest to a police officer about a family members cannabis habit, instead of dealing with it quietly, would cause countless sufferings to all those concerned. One has to utilize the voice as a tool for performing benefit for others. This sometimes means that we have to lie, or withhold the truth from people to avoid causing them harm.

The basis for the cultivation of positive states, the  practice that works most at the root of the problem, is related to intention, and not limited by vows. Instead vows are utilized as guidelines to be followed instead of  strict rules and confession (like monks). This means that the individual must learn to perform a kind of juggling act, maintaining openness, connecting with spaciousness, whilst also considering the best course of action to benefit others. This when applied with sufficient awareness can be a very skillful too which would result in benefit for many beings. The main tool which is used for working with ones intention is the practice of presence & awareness as this is required to be able to observer, discover and change ones intention. This practice is like a guardian at the gate of the mind, which makes sure that the thief of conflicting discursive thoughts and emotions do not cloud the mind. In this way the dark clouds of the emotions can part, to reveal the vast spaciousness of our awakened state.

This skillful practice can take a long time to develop, means we can and do make many mistakes. But through these mistakes we can have precious insight into our inner conflict and limitations, and also discover the truth about situations and circumstances. But if one does not have presence and awareness, then it is easy to fall into the trap of placing too much importance on the material level. Attachment, aversion and indifference arise out of this distraction, and stir the pot of our disturbing emotions. In meditation, the illusion of separateness created by our distraction and preoccupation with our thoughts, its allowed to slowly dissolve naturally. This is not something that happens straight away,as it is much like peeling the layers off an onion, the slow process of understanding and using our neurosis as fertilizer for the field of our awakening. :smile:

"Meditation isn't it, getting used to it is!" - Sogyal Rinpoche

"Believe nothing, O monks, merely because you have been told it...or because it is traditional, or because you yourselves have imagined it.  Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings--that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide." - Shakyamuni Buddha


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Edited by Sinbad (05/20/06 04:48 AM)

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Re: Honesty [Re: Sinbad]
    #5650217 -

honesty is often painful, if the beholder of it has bad karma

but, to those who have good karma, the truth is a beautiful angel of mercy and reward.

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Re: Honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5650816 -

Sinbad - Very cool writing man...Gaurdian of the mind's emotions and thoughts...A ha! Fairly perfect imagery with a sense of morality. Good Goin Bro. Though I think you began to divulge into your practice instead of the issue being focused on, relitive or not still doesnt hurt anyone.

Hypothetically, If in such a situation, it would be easy to recognize that the police officer's beliefs about this certain substance are already untruthfull, so in a sense, you are merely maintaining the already hidden truth by not revealing to him somthing which would have dire effects indeed. Though I do know what you are trying to say with that analogy, beside's my interpretation.

I believe in honesty, of oneself towards others, in the sense of being genuine and truthfull in their manner and words. To be honest with your surroundings and honest to God, for that would be the ultimate mistake. Deception is always worse in general...So be carefull to whoem you decieve in this skillfull practice of intention, as you claim because somtimes our subjections arnt actual truth's as we percieve them and our intentions as good as they may be, lack power if not approached correctly.

Wilzolz


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Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
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"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
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WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile

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Re: Honesty [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5650861 -

Quote:
, it would be easy to recognize that the police officer's beliefs about this certain substance are already untruthfull


untrue, you have no idea what a police officers particular beliefs are in reguards to marijuana. many police officers advocate marijuana legalization because they are the ones who experience the effects of prohibition first hand. secondly, why is it "easy" to recognize someone elses beleifs about marijuana are untruthful when you dont even know what these beliefs are? are you saying your beliefs are the only true ones and anyone who may feel differently is automatically wrong?

Edited by Deviate (05/19/06 04:32 PM)

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Re: Honesty [Re: Sinbad]
    #5650878 -

That was a nice piece Sinbad! :thumbup: The truth does have layers and we can choose from any one of the layers (through extra dimensional spaciousness) as you put it, which creates a whole new reality space out of what can be.

And like with the virtue of withholding, this can be a good thing because honesty seen as a tool, can often become a weapon to cause harm and destruction with. Sometimes, withholding a truth is akin to an act of mercy that keeps one from pulling the trigger.

Opinions will vary on this topic.

Sure one can go through life letting the facts of the current moment define the next instead of pulling potentials from a future moment into the now to redefine it anew. Like you said, thats a skill. :wink:

In the former cases, the truth as is can become binding and restrictive. Yet, that's what makes some feel the most safe, secure and stable.

You can go through life voicing merciless honesty at every turn and see where that gets ya! Or at times, you can skillfully know, what and when to withhold for a greater good to be realized. Timing can make the difference and be everything as they say. Having that skill requires the extra spatial aspects of hindsight and foresight.

I agree with the essence of the post simply because truth is multi layered and there are many ways to remain honest while moving around it spatially. Neat visual on how that works is right!

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Honesty [Re: Sinbad]
    #5651028 -

"I may and/or may not, be telling the truth .. But, at least I am honest!"
-Unknown :p

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Re: Honesty [Re: Sinbad]
    #5651062 -

Consider that to a man with a clear mind honesty is never dangerous, because he has honey in his mind, and honey comming from his mouth


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Honesty [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5652330 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
Consider that to a man with a clear mind honesty is never dangerous, because he has honey in his mind, and honey comming from his mouth


In his own mind maybe. But what about protecting others whose minds arent so sweet?


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Re: Honesty [Re: Sinbad]
    #5652351 -

Quote:
Honesty is like a tool. In some cases it is useful, and in others it can be unskilful. Usually in our modern lives, we have to constantly juggle honesty with the need to prevent harm coming to others


honest is a tool. but heres a bigger question, now that you've figured out this "tool" if you will. what's the tool for? the tool isnt really a tool (although i just contradicted myself). i'd say lies are more like the tool of wrong.


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Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.

Edited by KidgardFromSRQ (05/20/06 05:19 AM)

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Re: Honesty [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5652370 -

Honesty is like a tool. In some cases it is useful, and in others it can be unskilful. Usually in our modern lives, we have to constantly juggle honesty with the need to prevent harm coming to others


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Lunar picks through his list of appropriate "honest" responses

Honestly, you don't know what you are talking about.  (Hmmm, too negative and vague...)

WTF are you talking about?  (Hmmm, honest, but attacking, no....)

So it's OK to lie when it suits your needs?  :wink:  (Better, still a bit attacking, kind of honest, kind of provocative and more to the point of the discussion...plus the wink emoticon is a cute little sarcastic yet friendly poke in the ribs kind of guy.)

Are you a Republican?  This sounds like a spin...(Most honest, yet too political for this forum.  Would perhaps be better in PA&L.  Funny to me but likely not to others. Hmmm....) 

Oh, what shall I say to make this the best most "honest" response that will benefit both me and others, be politically correct, funny
yet pithy, sassy yet friendly, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum...ah screw it...

Honestly, do you think we should be celebrating the third anniversary of "Iraqi Freedom Day"?  :wink:


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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