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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5885207 - 07/21/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do what?

I know there are starving children out there and I don't care.

If there is one thing that life has shown me is that there are no rules. There is nothing that says you can't do this or that. It's all up to us, and if enough people wanted to we probably could alleviate world hunger by simply switching to a vegetarian diet.

But seriously, I think wha t you're doing is a good thing and you should continue.

I myself am content to work hard and not cause problems with those I encounter, even if that means lying occasionally.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5885297 - 07/21/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If one starts behaving to appease the emotional needs of whatever group of people one is in, one might as well count oneself as a sheep.


Baaahhh!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: painful honesty [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5885337 - 07/21/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

sometimes its necessary to keep the peace.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: painful honesty [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5886704 - 07/22/06 04:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
But just because we are all one, does not mean that problems between our separate selves do not exist.  You cannot let your spiritual understanding of the big picture distract you from the problems right in front of you.




Like I have already stated, it is not a problem, it is an oppurtunity. The fact that differences do occur amongst individuals does not imply one appropriate response to the situation. My point is that maintaining an understanding of the true nature of reality will empower an individual to become more effective in handling the situations that one becomes present, in one's life. The response to one's "problems" will be more beneficial to onself and one's situation.

Quote:


I have fallen victim to this behavior quite a bit.  Someone will wrong me, and I will think, "Ah, well, its no big deal, in the big scheme of things."




I am not proposing a refusal to address circumstances in one's life, by simply shrugging one's shoulders and saying "oh well, it doesn't mean anything from a higher perspective". I am stating that, if one employs a higher perspective in interpretating a given situation and utilizing that insight to consciously choose one's response in the interaction, then one will be more effective at producing beneficial change.

Quote:


And for the most part, I am right.  But in turning the other cheek I am being dishonest with both myself and others, by allowing bad things to happen to both myself and others via my example.




No one has spoken of "turning the other cheek". There are appropriate responses to given situations, and no one is denying this or speaking agansit this. One simply proposes that the outlook one has on given situations naturally effects the way that someone will respond to given situations. An outlook that considers our state of constant flux realizes that we have an oppurtunity to constantly learn and improve ourselves, by using reality as a model, a lesson, a field in which we can theorize of the nature of reality, consciously act within reality, observe the occurence, and apply our gathered insight. 

It is in this light that one does not see "problems" that are suffered through, but yet opportunties, which provide the maximum amount of benefit to oneself, in understanding reality, and applying that understanding to further oneself and reality.

Quote:


Evil triumphs because good men do nothing.  Often, evil triumphs simply because good men say nothing.  They hold their opinion back out of fear or trying to 'be the bigger man'. 




As I have stated, there are appropriate responses to given situations. :shrug:

Quote:


But in other causes, one must abandon the mystical perspective and speak out, or even act, on behalf of what is right, just, and true.  Sometimes, honesty is not pretty, or pleasant.  But living with a lie for too long can be ultimately more unpleasant than fighting against it.




"The mystical perspective" is an outlook that reflects reality as it has presented itself. Why would one abandon one's understanding of reality in order to act? The point is that one consciously utilizes an encompassing understanding of reality to truly understand the circumstances of the situation - thus enabling oneself to choose the most appropriate, beneficial response to the situation. This is not "living a lie", and it is not "pleasant". It simply is.

Quote:


And yes, though I do understand the zen principles of higher, more etherical dimensions, I must also admit that i currently reside in the third dimension of this reality, and in this place, there are most definitely right and wrong, good and evil.  I refuse to be a fool.  I refuse to let evil triumph just because I have issues with my own ability to morally judge others objectively. 




Your existance is limited to merely one dimension of reality? :wtf: Actually, that explains a lot. :smirk:

Quote:


I asked what opportunity would be created by the starvation of children, and you said: "So we might learn."  But what are they learning?  Do those kids deserve to suffer for our lesson?  How could anyone justify the suffering of the innocent, for any reason whatsoever?  And how could anyone justify profiting off the suffering of others?  Perhaps we are all students of reality, but it seems to me that the wrong lessons are taught.  People get worse all the time, simply because the wrong behavior is rewarded, and the proper behavior is punished. 




No one is attempting to justify anything in their situation. Reality exists as it is, and we can gain whatever we wish from that. Reality itself does not require justification, will not provide justification, and will not operate with a sense of justification. Things happen. All we can do from that is learn how things happen, choose what we would like to happen, and make it happen. Thus, the only thing we can do from any given situation is learn from it in order to further what we make happen. Eh? :smirk: It is not necessary to moan "But what of the starving children?!" as though it negates anyone's point that pertains to a higher understanding of reality.

Quote:


You cannot let your 'enlightened' perspective of oneness blind you to the fact that there is still a struggle going on all around us.




This "enlightened perspective of oneness" cannot blind, as it is one's direct perception of reality as it occurs. Aspects of the mind blind one from this direct perception. This perspective does not negate that there exists a struggle within almost everyone, but realizes the true nature of this, and thus beckons those with this perspective to interact with others in manners that will directly offer resolution to this suffering.

The entire point: Someone who understands reality will be more capable of navigating reality, in applying that understanding to further reality. To become more aware of the nature of reality, one is more able to act in ways that are in accordance with that nature. If you learn how to swim, you are more able to swim. :shocked:

Quote:


sorry, don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I'm tired of this "Its all good, man" bullshit.  Nah, nigga.  Its not all good.  If you think its all good, you havent fucking been there.  We can't all just sit around and lie to ourselves that everything is OK.  We have to realize that there is evil and injustice in the world, and stand up and fucking do something about it whenever we are able. 




Nice tangent, but yet I fail to understand how it applies to what has been proposed in the slightest. One would think that, if one truly understood the nature of the unfavorable situation you describe, then one would be more empowered to interact in that situation in order to produce the desired change. Would you agree with that? That, if you know why that person hates others, then perhaps one would be more able to respond to alleviate the cause of that exhibited behavior?

I'm not so much thinking that you disagree with what I have proposed (mainly because it makes sense), but rather that you are deciding to address a different subject then the ideas and view that I have expressed. :wink: You seem to be proposing points agansit adopting a view of complacency, choosing to ignore the "ugly" aspects of reality in order to feel good about life, while I am proposing truly becoming aware of the present moment and all that is existing within it, in order to truly understand the aspects of reality, so that one is capable of choosing to interact in the present moment in the most beneficial manner, the way that will provoke the most preferred change.

The viewpoint that I am expressing is one of actively seeking to participate in reality in order to better it, almost directly opposed to that of choosing to ignore reality in order to feel as those it has been bettered, which is exactly why I am confused as to why you seem to think I am supporting such a view. :confused:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: painful honesty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7797141 - 12/25/07 12:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Blump. :tongue:

Merry Christmas everyone, I thought everyone might need to read some interesting discussion on how to become a conduit of effective, transformative change. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: painful honesty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7797426 - 12/25/07 03:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Blump. :tongue:

Merry Christmas everyone, I thought everyone might need to read some interesting discussion on how to become a conduit of effective, transformative change. :mushroom2:




Merry Christmas Sexy Butt McDanger :heartpump:
I have the most wonderful Christmas, being with you and loving you in every way and you are so wonderful and sweet and sexy :yesnod:
And now you're being naughty and ask too many questions! :nono:
For that I will just have to eat you alive :cannibal:... well, for that, and for everything else. :smirk:
I love you sweet heart, I love being with you and I love being one with you :yinyang:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: painful honesty [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7797832 - 12/25/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"Just the facts, Ma'am"


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: painful honesty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7798265 - 12/25/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
How can I be personally responsible for the emotions of others?  I can't control how someone will emotionally react.  Maybe they are emotionally unstable.




If one takes on the presence of an observer, others will react to themselves through reacting to you. Bring awareness within, become a mirror to reality, and others will begin to know themselves through interacting with you. :mushroom2:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




not necessarily.. you can only be a mirror if the other person stops projecting an identity on to you. you can't force someone to do that...
i'm saying this from experience because enlightened individuals have tried to reflect myself back at me to make me see the error of my ways and all the while i was trying to understand their intentions.. lol :poop:


--------------------


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Invisiblefarmer88
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Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
Re: painful honesty [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7799994 - 12/26/07 02:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well I have to agree lunar. I have been fortunate and only felt to necessity to seek a council once, I was in hindsight badly in need of some help, but also in hindsight found that I had to get myself out of the mess I was in....and I did.

Most of the really mixed up people I have met are into advising others, scares the fuck out of me every time. Also takes away a "backstop" if it all goes wrong, but that's just me. I realize others benefit from these services. Despite my experiences the following seems to make sense.

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.
Hunter S. Thompson


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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