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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Acidbear]
    #873203 -

Not too sure, for the vast majority of human existence man lived in groups of no more than 30. These were purely communist groups - everyone got an equal share, everyone got cared for the same. There were no Bill Gates and poverty stricken beggars in those groups. So in his natural state man naturally gravitates towards sharing equally with others. It's only when you pervert his essential nature by forcing him to hate and compete with his neighbour that this changes. His natural state seems to be based around anarchist ideas of equality and sharing, only the culture we live in seems to have perverted that.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

Edited by Alex123 (09/09/02 06:58 PM)

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Xlea321]
    #873699 -

"Well for the few brief years they were widely available in the 60's they brought the western world to the brink of revolution and so terrified the establishment that they made them schedule 1 drugs against the advice of pretty much every medical expert in the country."

Was it really psychadelics that brought the western world to the brink of revolution? I wonder. Student protest and demonstrations were a worldwide phenomenon in the 60's, including in many places where acid wasn't really available or used, such as Japan. The mood of the 60's was A) a reaction against the Cold War, which many people rightly saw as a threat to the very existence of humanity and B) a product of post-war affluence, which gave millions of young, middle-class Americans the chance to get a college education for the first time and the leisure to sit around smoking dope and dropping acid and thinking about ways to make the world a better place. If those young people were struggling to make a living day after day they wouldn't have the time and energy to do the things they did. In any event, over 75% of the hippies eventually cut their hair, put on the suits and ties, and became yuppies.

The Feds made psychadelics schedule 1 drugs because, given a chance, they will make every decent drug under the sun schedule 1. It's just the same old paranoia. Even cocaine and speed are schedule 1, which doesn't make much sense by your logic because cocaine and speed are the capitalist drugs par excellence.

Don't get me wrong: I love psychadelics and I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you have to say, but just look at the folks on these forums: do most of them seem to have a sense of the "oneness of humanity" to you? You've got the gun lobby here, the "greed is good" ideologues, the "nuke the brown people" nutjobs. You yourself said so. Not to mention all of the utterly juvenile backbiting and flame wars. I fail to see what psychadelics have done for these people in any positive sense.

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: EchoVortex]
    #873749 -

Cocaine and speed are schedule II. Weed is schedule I. Go figure. :confused:

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Xlea321]
    #873765 -

Alex, keep up the good work. With self-appointed experts to represent liberal ideas, we have little to fear. At best you're free entertainment.

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: puscle]
    #873773 -

Catty arn't you  :grin:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: EchoVortex]
    #873801 -

Don't get me wrong: I love psychadelics and I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you have to say, but just look at the folks on these forums: do most of them seem to have a sense of the "oneness of humanity" to you? You've got the gun lobby here, the "greed is good" ideologues, the "nuke the brown people" nutjobs. You yourself said so. Not to mention all of the utterly juvenile backbiting and flame wars. I fail to see what psychadelics have done for these people in any positive sense.

Good point echo. I suppose the problem we have at the moment is there is no cultural support in place. Monks living in a monastery would have their positive experience during meditation and then have a cultural system of support in place to help them grow and learn from that experience. Iin the west we don't. Most of these guys have the experience and 4 hours later they've got someone snapping "I'll take fries with that..." at them. Without the cultural support psychedelics can only open the door. Being able to step through it is something else entirely.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: EchoVortex]
    #873836 -

Well said EV. You should paste a copy of your post in the S&P Forum in a thread about "Do psychedelics reveal the universe" or some similar title.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Xlea321]
    #873972 -

How old are you?

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: superpimp]
    #874143 -

Old enough to know better  :grin:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Xlea321]
    #874870 -

that's mighy white of you to make the assumption
that everyone who consumes psychedelics is a
patchouli wearing leftest peace monger.


And I do not like the smell of patchouli, never have... :crazy:

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Innvertigo]
    #874892 -

How is communism leftist? I know that socialism (which isn't much different) has been implemented under right wing regimes like the nazis.

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: puscle]
    #875090 -

"Cocaine and speed are schedule II. Weed is schedule I. Go figure. "

Oops, my bad. I didn't mean to misinform anybody. Well, maybe Alex is onto something then. Weed makes you mellow and peaceable, psychadelics in many cases might make you question consensus views. Cocaine and speed just send you into overdrive, which, after all, might have its productive benefits (coke is the drug of choice among investment bankers and speed is popular with many long-distance truck drivers).

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: MortMtroN]
    #875091 -

I'm not quite sure you know what "Right wing" and "Left wing" mean.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: Xlea321]
    #875120 -

"Good point echo. I suppose the problem we have at the moment is there is no cultural support in place. Monks living in a monastery would have their positive experience during meditation and then have a cultural system of support in place to help them grow and learn from that experience. Iin the west we don't. Most of these guys have the experience and 4 hours later they've got someone snapping "I'll take fries with that..." at them. Without the cultural support psychedelics can only open the door. Being able to step through it is something else entirely. "

Yeah, I agree with everything you've written here. Set and setting are key, and by "set" one can mean not only one's short term mindset but the whole deep history of the individual going back to their childhood memories as well as their most deeply held values.

I think the age you start using them also makes a big difference. I myself didn't start until my mid-twenties and I'm glad I didn't start earlier. I see high school kids doing the stuff and not really getting very much out of it (acid, being so cheap, is perhaps the most popular drug in high schools right now). It scrambles their developmental process by giving them these really intense episodes that they see just as extreme experience (like driving fast or whatever) and not as structured explorations of their own minds (it's hard to explore with any assurance something that's still under construction). By the time they reach the age when they can actually process the experience and integrate it productively into their worldview, a lot of them are already burned out on it and aren't so interested anymore.

Anyway, I think we can agree that psychadelics are just one piece of the puzzle of personal development. A very important piece, definitely, a key tool, but not a "magic bullet" for enlightenment.

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Re: Failing the acid test [Re: EchoVortex]
    #875399 -

It's always funny to hear about monks in Thailand
robbing and beating up people and selling meth.
It's funny. Like the story about the monk's attack
on the disabled guy.

Those zany monks.

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