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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389075 - 09/09/01 01:51 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


"Well on the same note, not allowing firearms also does nothing to address the underlying problems, and rather than solving the problem merely diverts it to another area. "

well, thats what just about every law does. if no one wanted to murder, then it wouldn't happen. but people do, so you have to make it illegal. and i'm sure you know about DARE and similar anti-drug programs. they are working they're asses off to try to nip the problem at the bud, but it isn't working in the least bit. laws aren't made to fix problems, they are made to lessen them. if america was a Utopian society (like we all wish it would be) then they're would be no problem with guns being legal, and you seem to be clinging to this belief (or the belief that one law abiding man with a gun will always succeed in defending himself from a criminal). i just fail to see guns being available to the public as a thing that improves society, the only valid reason that i can think of is that its in the bill of rights, and thats something that shouldn't be tampered with.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389087 - 09/09/01 02:03 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


"In mid-December, 1937, the Japanese army invaded China and overran Nanking. They disarmed its one million inhabitants, then embarked on a six-week campaign of terror, bloodshed and death."

well, to take the guns the people had to give them willingly wouldn't they? they had the chance to take up arms, the japanese just covered there tracks and took the guns away while the people were alone (i'm guessing they went disarming from house to house?). they knew the dangers of armed citizens, and made sure they're were none. if america was invaded, even if every citizen was armed to the teeth, if they willingly gave they're guns for fear of being arrested, it wouldn't make any difference.

"Think about this the next time Japan and other civilized societies suggests that ordinary citizens should not be armed."

now, this is crossing the line, comparing the government of japan today to its fascist goverment of world war 2. just because they both stood for gun control, doesn't mean they are anything alike. i would be quite surprised if the japanize push for american gun control is just a ploy to disarm american citizens so they can invade without any resistance from guerillas.



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Anonymous

Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389400 - 09/09/01 03:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You raised an interesting point. Think about countries that would even consider attacking or invading us, not now of course, things are pretty calm. But in the future you never know. If a super power country like china or japan did decide to invade us, they would have to go through the most powerful army in the world. If they did get past them, imagine how hard it would be to keep millions of armed citizens fighting in their homeland, contained. It wouldn't happen.



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389413 - 09/09/01 03:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

oDin, of course your guns are not a threat to any innocent people. But to the criminals our guns certainly are a real threat, and a deterrent. Phyl admitted the fact that the Yardies (thugs) would have guns if there was no gun control and that they do with gun control. He basicly conceded that gun control only disarms regular citizens and not criminals.

Phyl, you said that the rapist would probably also have a gun. Thats possible. But then you went on to say there could be a stalemate because of it. Now that's not really likely. Anyone I know wouldn't draw on a criminal unless they were going to shoot them immediatly, at least I would. I wouldn't point a gun at someone unless I was going to shoot them. Using a gun as a threat is dangerous to the person doing the threatening and the person being threatened. On the other hand drawing and firing is dangerous only to the person being shot. That's how I see it.

McKurtz, I don't think my statements went too far as you said. In fact I don't think they went far enough. In every case where a large civilian group is disarmed they don't think there is an immediate danger from it or they more than likely wouldn't surrender their arms. Gun control makes you an easy victim for a foreign invader as well as from domestic threats. Without guns in the hands of the general public what's to stop your own nation from instituting genocide. You're also at a much greater risk from domestic violent criminals.

Take care, RG

PS McKurtz, I hope you looked at the murder rate for the USA and the UK and saw that your statement about ours being 7 times higher than theirs is dead wrong.

Edited by Rail_Gun on 09/09/01 03:09 PM.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: ]
    #389423 - 09/09/01 04:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

LoOnEr, actually during world war two the fact that American civilians are all armed heavily influenced the Empire of Japan's military policy. You're right about what you said about an armed populace being a deterrent. I don't think that we are now immune from invasion as you do however. Through out history there have been numerous invasions that happened when the party invaded didn't expect it. Hannible's invasion of the Roman Empire comes to mind as do dozens of other notable invasions.

This is how America's armed citizenry influenced Japan's military policy and may have kept us from being invaded:

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.

Take care, RG



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSolo
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389636 - 09/09/01 08:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pro choice on this issue. If you don't want to own a gun, don't! If you want to own one or ten for that matter, do so.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389674 - 09/09/01 08:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

well, if the american military was defeated, wouldnt bombing be much more likely then an invasion? and, if there was a crisis where america was invaded.. it would be easy to get guns to the general public, why would they need to be there already? hell, with your logic, america should be under military control all year round just in case there is a surprise invasion.

"Hannible's invasion of the Roman Empire comes to mind as do dozens of other notable invasions."

we have things called satellites now, if there was an army large enough to invade america coming, we would see it.





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Anonymous

Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389766 - 09/09/01 10:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The thought of bombing the US during ww2 was highly unlikely. Japan couldn't just send bombers across the atlantic ocean, they needed a base close by... for them to have effective bombings on us, they would have to have ground control on our soil.. which wouldn't happen!



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: ]
    #389784 - 09/09/01 11:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It was likely. The japs just didn't because they were too chicken to even stick around and take Hawaii. The bombing of the fleet at Pearl Harbor was the greatest naval disaster since the Spanish Armada. The japs could have taken Hawaii and used their aircraft carriers, battleships, destroyers, dreadnaughts, and super dreadnaughts to attack and invade the mainland. The politicians and public of the US knew that and were afraid of invasion, it was a real concern. Thankfully the japanese fleet turned tail after only 3 or so hours of attack and disapeared back into the pacific. 3 hours of surprise attack destroyed most of our pacific fleet and killed thousands of our soldiers. They could have kept attacking and taken all of the Hawaiian islands but they just left, thankfully. Their retreat gave us time to kick into gear and harness our industrial strength against the Empire of Japan, and eventually win the war.




--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflinePhyl
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389932 - 09/10/01 03:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Phyl admitted the fact that the Yardies (thugs) would have guns if there was no gun control and that they do with gun control. He basicly conceded that gun control only disarms regular citizens and not criminals.
Whist I admit that some criminals still have guns under a policy of control, they are nowhere near as common as if openly on sale. In the UK at least, criminals with firearms are the exception not the rule. Having no gun control would ensure that all criminals have guns.

Anyone I know wouldn't draw on a criminal unless they were going to shoot them immediatly, at least I would. I wouldn't point a gun at someone unless I was going to shoot them. Using a gun as a threat is dangerous to the person doing the threatening and the person being threatened. On the other hand drawing and firing is dangerous only to the person being shot. That's how I see it.
That would be true assuming that the shot instantly killed the attacker. I can' say I've had any first hand experience with people being shot, but I believe if an attacker gets wounded and not killed by a gunshot, they would still be more than capable of shooting the person they were attacking.
For your ideas of defence through firearms to work, it would rely on people carrying their guns with them where ever they go and keeping them loaded and 'ready for action' at all time. What good is a gun locked in a gun cabinet, whilst you are being attacked in your bedroom?
Perhaps this would work in the US, but it is not something that I could ever see becoming accepted in the UK, and is a society I definately wouldn't want to be in. Every person has tollerance levels, and everyone can snap if provoked. Having been on the recieveing end of road rage incidents myself, I can only be thankful that my attacker was not armed.


Take care




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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389940 - 09/10/01 04:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

This may have been true during WW2, but if any country were to invade the US now a days it would be a bombing campaigns, followed by long range atrillary attacks, helecopter gunships, tanks and APC's until the area was made 'safe' for ground troops.
There may be rifles behind each blade of grass, but they're not gonna help much if your attacker is out of range or behind a few inches of plate armour.

Take care



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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389972 - 09/10/01 05:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

why do you have pictures of holocaust victims you red necked inbred fascist son of a bitch?


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"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts." - ChemicalMonkey


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"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts."- ChemicalMonkey (The Early Years)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Sir Tokes-A-Lot]
    #389997 - 09/10/01 07:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sir talks a lot, listen to me you father fucking little shit stain. If you would crawl out of the cum bubble you live in and use your third grade education to read this thread on your 13'' black and white moniter you would see why. To make my points about gun control being a contributing factor of the holocaust, to make a point about private arms ownership, and to support gun rights in general.

Now what's with all the childish name calling you started? Did I offend your little girl ego somehow? Or are you just the hate filled mean spirited, fascist fucko you accused me of being? Now I'm obviously not fascist, am I. I support truth justice, and the American way. Now on the other hand you support name calling, censorship, and pedophilia. You're severly mixed up my little sheep. In the past 2 or 3 days you have voiced your support for murdering jews in Israel, censorship, and a number of other messed up things. You're the fascist if anyone is!

So piss off you brown peckered, pimple popping, front tooth missing, hairy palmed, ass fucked bitch.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflinePhyl
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #390031 - 09/10/01 09:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I support truth justice, and the American way

LOL...

Take care



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InvisibleCaptain Jack
i [heart] you

Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 4,113
Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #390448 - 09/10/01 06:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Whoa there, killer.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.


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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #390920 - 09/11/01 02:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

damn railgun, someone needs to calmdown. i say 4 insults and you come back with a whole fucking flame essay. someone needs to get their priorities straight and stop acting like a southern middle-schooler....


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts." - ChemicalMonkey


--------------------


"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts."- ChemicalMonkey (The Early Years)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Sir Tokes-A-Lot]
    #391744 - 09/11/01 11:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It's better than coming back with a picture of a faggot flower wearing an ear ring with my name under it proving that the last line of what I said was true.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #391746 - 09/11/01 11:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I would like to point out that that gun control didn't save the thousands of people that died in todays terrorist attack just as it didn't save the 13 million holocaust victims. It just made them more vulnerable to the forces of evil.

Edited by Rail_Gun on 09/11/01 10:18 PM.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #391804 - 09/12/01 12:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

A HAHAHAHA!

youre joking, right?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts." - ChemicalMonkey


--------------------


"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts."- ChemicalMonkey (The Early Years)


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Test your knowledge of gun control: [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #392889 - 09/12/01 11:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

so, if everyone there had guns they could have fired at the planes and blown it up in mid air right? wow, that would be cool to watch. even if every american had there own personal gunship, it wouldnt have saved those people who died. and anyways, what are you talking about? gun control isnt in effect in america, if what your saying is true, that should never have happened, cause we still got our guns in our locked cabinets.

as for the holocaust, the jews had guns, they just gave them up cause they didnt want to die. people were fighting, and fighting damn hard. probably the strongest guerilla fighting going on in WW2 was in poland, and thats where most of the jews were killed. i still dont see what you mean by gun control killing the jews.



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