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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Platinum]
    #8507044 -

Platinum said:
PhanTomCat said:
Choosing the best tool (or weapon) for the occasion can be the difficult part, as you almost never know what you are going to need until you need it....
Sometimes a Swiss Army knife can come in handy....

I should prolly~ get one........soon.......    :tongue:


>^;;^<


As I read your post it sorta made me think about a swiss army knife. I'm not sure if you were just trying to be funny about a swiss army knife coming in handy, but a swiss army knife would be perfect.

Think of your mind as a swiss army knife, where each piece of the knife is a representation of experience and lessons learned. The more you experience and learn, the better equipped you are.




I was going to comment directly on his metaphor, but since you did I'll add this.  Yes, his metaphor was perfect.  I am assuming he understood the symbolism it brought to the discussion.

Great comment.  :thumbup:


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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Asante]
    #8507528 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
What if logic is a coping strategy of the mind to try make sense of the world, and turns out to be just another interpretation of reality? What if logic only can take you so far?


Logic needs some kind of underlying structure before it can be applied at all. It would be wrong to ignore certain areas of reality just because no such underlying structure can be identified. But what other interpretations of reality are available in such cases? All we have are words like "chaos" and "random".

Finding patterns in apparent randomness is the first step of making sense of the world. Logic is immensely useful for analyzing such patterns, simply because logic is a powerful tool for handling abstractions. If a person's attempt of making sense of apparent randomness is no more ambitious than recording each random input, without any sorting or cataloging, then logic is completely useless. But if there is any desire to identify patterns, what alternative methods are there that don't respect some type of logic? Are there any examples at all of such methods?

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Rhizoid]
    #8507726 -

Not to speak for WS, but...

Rhizoid said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
What if logic is a coping strategy of the mind to try make sense of the world, and turns out to be just another interpretation of reality? What if logic only can take you so far?


Logic needs some kind of underlying structure before it can be applied at all. It would be wrong to ignore certain areas of reality just because no such underlying structure can be identified. But what other interpretations of reality are available in such cases? All we have are words like "chaos" and "random".


I've been intrigued with the expression "interpretations of reality" since the thread began.  What do you understand it to mean?

Quote:
Finding patterns in apparent randomness is the first step of making sense of the world. Logic is immensely useful for analyzing such patterns, simply because logic is a powerful tool for handling abstractions. If a person's attempt of making sense of apparent randomness is no more ambitious than recording each random input, without any sorting or cataloging, then logic is completely useless. But if there is any desire to identify patterns, what alternative methods are there that don't respect some type of logic? Are there any examples at all of such methods?


There are examples; I can think of two, one in direct contravention of analytic logic, the other indirect.


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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8508152 -

Senor_Hongos said:
Not to speak for WS, but...

Quote:
Rhizoid said:But what other interpretations of reality are available in such cases? All we have are words like "chaos" and "random".


I've been intrigued with the expression "interpretations of reality" since the thread began.  What do you understand it to mean?


I mean something like "all the relationships and interconnections between different elements of perception".

Quote:
Quote:
Finding patterns in apparent randomness is the first step of making sense of the world. Logic is immensely useful for analyzing such patterns, simply because logic is a powerful tool for handling abstractions. If a person's attempt of making sense of apparent randomness is no more ambitious than recording each random input, without any sorting or cataloging, then logic is completely useless. But if there is any desire to identify patterns, what alternative methods are there that don't respect some type of logic? Are there any examples at all of such methods?


There are examples; I can think of two, one in direct contravention of analytic logic, the other indirect.


Could you elaborate a bit more?

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Rhizoid]
    #8509257 -

Rhizoid said:
I mean something like "all the relationships and interconnections between different elements of perception".


In specific terms how does this manifest itself?

Senor_Hongos said:
There are examples; I can think of two, one in direct contravention of analytic logic, the other indirect.


Rhizoid said:
Could you elaborate a bit more?


Yes, I could.

Seriously though, try to feel for the answer instead of mentally search for it and see what you come up with.


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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Platinum]
    #8509434 -

Platinum said:
PhanTomCat said:
Choosing the best tool (or weapon) for the occasion can be the difficult part, as you almost never know what you are going to need until you need it....
Sometimes a Swiss Army knife can come in handy....
.
I should prolly~ get one........soon.......    :tongue:
.
.
>^;;^<


.
As I read your post it sorta made me think about a swiss army knife. I'm not sure if you were just trying to be funny about a swiss army knife coming in handy, but a swiss army knife would be perfect.


It was a metaphor for how we "handle" every situation we face - we use different tools for each situation....
One has to evaluate the actual situation before choosing the correct tool for the situation....
This is prolly~ where "true wisdom" plays a role....
Trying to make a tool work for the wrong job, doesn't always give the optimally desired results....

I just like to use the corkscrew part of my knife a lot, because it is a fun tool....    :grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8510472 -

Senor_Hongos said:
Rhizoid said:
I mean something like "all the relationships and interconnections between different elements of perception".


In specific terms how does this manifest itself?


For example, when I see the sun I think: This strong light coming from a round object in the sky is very similar to a perception I had yesterday and the day before. I will create a mental category for this particular pattern of perceptions, and call it "The Sun".

Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
There are examples; I can think of two, one in direct contravention of analytic logic, the other indirect.


Rhizoid said:
Could you elaborate a bit more?


Yes, I could.

Seriously though, try to feel for the answer instead of mentally search for it and see what you come up with.


I feel a slight itch on my left foot. But no particular pattern or understanding reveals itself by my feeling it, so my question still stands: what are the two examples you were thinking of?

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Rhizoid]
    #8527359 -

Rhizoid said:
For example, when I see the sun I think: This strong light coming from a round object in the sky is very similar to a perception I had yesterday and the day before. I will create a mental category for this particular pattern of perceptions, and call it "The Sun".


Do you do this with every object you see, hear, taste or touch?  If so, that makes you an extraordinary human being, imo.

Rhizoid said:
I feel a slight itch on my left foot. But no particular pattern or understanding reveals itself by my feeling it, so my question still stands: what are the two examples you were thinking of?


I thought about this for days and all of a sudden an answer came to me.  Here is one example for you to logically dissect (although it will bring you no closer to an answer):

It is a well-known fact in mushroom hunting that it is difficult--some say impossible--to find certain mushrooms a priori the visual imprinting that comes with them.  In those instances logic plays little part, experience rules and reigns over logic; our attempts to force it where it does not belong and cannot go.

Similarly, it has been hypothesized that information can be transferred via the Biophoton Field.

This tranference might well escape the logic filter of the analytic mind.


--------------------

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8527475 -

Quote:
I just like to use the corkscrew part of my knife a lot, because it is a fun tool....   


Your girlfriend told me she is not that keen on it.


--------------------

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Rhizoid]
    #8527485 -

Quote:
For example, when I see Venus I think: This strong light coming from a round object in the sky is very similar to a perception I had yesterday and the day before. I will create a mental category for this particular pattern of perceptions, and call it "An alien spacecraft."




--------------------

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8528152 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I just like to use the corkscrew part of my knife a lot, because it is a fun tool....   


.
Your girlfriend told me she is not that keen on it.


If I had a girlfriend, I don't think I would be online here very much....    :frown:
Well, maybe some time....    :heart:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8528184 -

Why not? Sex only takes 3 minutes - that still leaves 23 hours and 57 minutes...


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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8528227 -

Oh contrair~, the corkscrew takes a lapsed time of 5 minutes, followed by a cigarette and a bowl of ice cream....

That only leaves me 23 hours and 30 minutes....    :frown:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8528233 -

Did you factor in the post-coital nap?


--------------------

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8528250 -

Heh, I fergot~ about that.....    :lol:

:frown:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Asante]
    #8528637 -

I love you Wiccan.

You are wrong... but I do love you.

You are a thoughtful man.

Zen masters would disagree with you too.

Logic makes yoga or tai-chi work.

The Buddha gets too much credit.

Nice try.

Believe if you must. But logic is the present reality. Everything else is faith.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8529533 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Why not? Sex only takes 3 minutes - that still leaves 23 hours and 57 minutes...


And since the astronomical sidereal day is just 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4.1 seconds, you could actually... uhm... oh, I forgot my original argument :tongue:

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8529663 -

Senor_Hongos said:
Rhizoid said:
For example, when I see the sun I think: This strong
Quote:
light coming from a round object in the sky is very similar to a perception I had yesterday and the day before. I will create a mental category for this particular pattern of perceptions, and call it "The Sun".


Do you do this with every object you see, hear, taste or touch?  If so, that makes you an extraordinary human being, imo.



Of course not. But when I let my preconditioned mental programming dissolve, that is the type of underlying patterns that I find.

Quote:
Rhizoid said:
I feel a slight itch on my left foot. But no particular pattern or understanding reveals itself by my feeling it, so my question still stands: what are the two examples you were thinking of?


I thought about this for days and all of a sudden an answer came to me.  Here is one example for you to logically dissect (although it will bring you no closer to an answer):

It is a well-known fact in mushroom hunting that it is difficult--some say impossible--to find certain mushrooms a priori the visual imprinting that comes with them.  In those instances logic plays little part, experience rules and reigns over logic; our attempts to force it where it does not belong and cannot go.


I still don't understand. It seems to me you are talking about how you make decisions without resorting to logic. This is all fine and good, but it has nothing to with the question of whether logic could have helped you make that decision.
Quote:
Similarly, it has been hypothesized that information can be transferred via the Biophoton Field.

This tranference might well escape the logic filter of the analytic mind.


Sorry, but even if these "biophotons" could be objectively measured, I still don't see how or why their existence would invalidate logic?

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Rose]
    #8530147 -

Quote:
But the Church is the present reality. Everything else is faith.



Logic is just another belief system Cervantes :hug:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Logic as a coping strategy [Re: Asante]
    #8530166 -

Logic is not a belief system, as it does not propose anything requiring faith.  Logic is a set of tools which we may use to become more organized and discerning in our interactions with reality.  It is not the ONLY tool, and it is not applicable to non-rational aspects of experience, but it is a quality tool & quite effective in the hands of a skilled crafter of thoughts.

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