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InvisibleHippie3
mycotopiate
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Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 3,090
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Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84779 - 04/12/00 08:17 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

real overkill, imho.
but during fruiting i believe 1 air exchange per hour is recommended.
rather depends on how many cakes you pack in there....

visit http://drooldonkey.org fore more info



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84781 - 04/12/00 10:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You mean overkill re: the little DC fan, or the whole setup? If the fan then "hmmm." I'll try and do the math and see if the little phut-phut Holmes can actually move that much air.

If the setup...well, maybe. I just wanted to build something that required minimal intervention from me, but enabled precise control over the environment.

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Good God, Yawl!!



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84782 - 04/12/00 10:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Oh-- and I'm putting 10 cakes in there. Not a lot of elbow room.



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84783 - 04/12/00 11:58 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

quote:
should I consider adding a small (1 1/4") DC fan to exchange more air? I'm concerned about introducing contaminants; right now the unit's fairly well-sealed. But If I use a slice of ULPA or HEPA filter over the fan it'll reduce the amount of effective air exchange...

Uh this is the mistake I have seen in all the hobbyist chambers built to date.

When I finish mine, I'll have to snap photos.

First off I have a sizeable AC fan. If memory serves me right is rated at about 120cfm.

Secondly why do you keep puting little slices of filters directly on the fans guys? It's all about surface area yo! :smile:



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84784 - 04/12/00 01:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

My chamber is only 4.29 cubic feet. A 120 cfm fan would change the air almost 1700 times an hour if left running, and if on a timer for one minute per hour would still change the air almost 30 times and pull all sorts of crap through the chamber, even w/ a filter. Whereas a 12VDC fan about 1 9/16" square pulls about 4.5 cfm. It runs once an hour for one minute and the air is changed. Trouble is, it probably _will_ have trouble pulling through the filter media. So a somewhat larger fan is in order...but not 120 cfm. Overkill for my setup, I think.

As far as filters and surface area goes--the "slice" I'm referring to is a section of baffled HEPA or ULPA. I've built "mini-HEPA filters" using a Radio Shack project enclosure to hold the baffled filter and the fan; they work nicely.



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84785 - 04/12/00 08:59 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

quote:
Originally posted by Indolio:
My chamber is only 4.29 cubic feet. A 120 cfm fan would change the air almost 1700 times an hour if left running, and if on a timer for one minute per hour would still change the air almost 30 times and pull all sorts of crap through the chamber, even w/ a filter.

Nope thats the hobbyist mistake. You forget about restrictions, you need to calculate surface area of filter material versus the restriction ratio and you will get the "true" cfm rating of you "overall" fan system.

I bet a dollar to a donut that after all my Pre and Post filtering setup my overall cfm will be less than your DC fan unrestricted.

I also have my fan on a sliding electronic dimmer control so I can control the speed that way as well...

ahhh the super box!, when will I finish you my pretty!



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84786 - 04/12/00 10:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So how big's your enclosure? How've you got your fan intake/exhaust set up? I'm in a city apartment, so small size and stealthiness are a consideration.

ind.oOo.lio



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84787 - 04/13/00 12:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Oh if I recall right it is about 60 quarts of air volume.

Custom designed glass lid, Bayenette locking custom arm cylinders that are seal but also are removeable. A removeable high efficiency custom built Electrostatic filter enclosure. Removeable fan unit providing negative pressurization and rough post filter backflow preventer. About if not a lot more than 320 square inches of filter (ruffles has ridges :-) Band locking long arm neoprene chemical working gloves full removeable and lock down with adjustable O-clamps. Circuit/Light electrical box with full bridgeboard and O-connector crimp wiring with full shrink wrapping and mounted cleanly to the box with an enclosed power switch system with slider switch A/C power regulation :-)...

This is a box designed by 2 Engineers with 70+ manyears experience between them. You will never see such a Cadillac design in your life. But alas it is economically unfeasable because of the high labor costs of meticulous pride in workmanship building I do to sell commercially. So I am considering just selling the key components seperately basically the glove+band+bayenette locking arm rings+foam sealing O-ring and let people go to wallmart and buy the box, cut, assemble... There is no direct glueing/siliconing of parts here, this is all pressure lock hermatic seal design stuff.

P.S. if you can find 1" aluminum C-Channel for me, you are a god! I've spent what little free time I have had over the past 3 weeks going through adhesive stress tests on 90 degree angle aluminum building the custom filter holder.



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84788 - 04/13/00 01:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Christ! So this is an honest-to-god sterile glovebox-type deal for agar prep and suchlike? Do you fruit in it as well?

All I've done is convert a 68-quart Coleman cooler to serve as a relatively clean place to fruit my cakes. I get my kitchen "sterile" by spraying a boatload of Lysol and running an Austin HEPA filter for a day or so before cooking & jarring substrate (it's a small space).

Jars incubate in the cupboard above the fridge which keeps them 77-80F.

Fruiting wil happen in the Coleman, between the cat's food dish and water bowl.

We'll see if this all works out in another 45 days or so.

C-Channel...say, would brass C-channel work? I seem to recall such things being available from my model-building days.



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Offline3Mshroom
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 497
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84789 - 04/13/00 02:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Have you tried any of the homebuilt aircraft companies? A friend of mine builds ultralights and I seem to recall seeing some C channel that was the size that you mentioned. How much do you need? I will see if I can hook you up.

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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84790 - 04/13/00 12:29 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

C-Channel needs to be thin walled. I guess brass will work but this is what you will need to do to it.

Cut a 45 degree angle down to the bottom but not through, then a 45 degree angle up the other way so you end up with two nice triangle scraps. We are going to "fold" (no snapping!) The C-channel up 90 degrees and form a square U shape and one straight piece making the cap with the end result being a perfect square/rectangle of C-Channel to hold the filter.

|______|

Now you can slide standard Electrostatic filters (slightly less than 1" thick) in and it will be replaceable.

If you want it permanent I guess you really can silicone or glue it to the box, but I use a square foam sealing ring and compression screw setup so its removeable and replaceable every 3-6 months.

Fruiting? No fruiting in here! This is for pure sterile work! Agar/Germination/Printing etc. :tongue:

[This message has been edited by The Learner (edited April 13, 2000).]



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InvisiblePrellgott
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Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 383
Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84791 - 04/15/00 04:56 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I like it simple...........
If you want Air Exchange, good humidity...
work with Aquarium Bubblers...
Overkill:2 to push new air in, 1 to suck heavy air out...
the Air of the in-bublers goes through 2 jars with H2O7/H2O2 or perlite with water in the second....
check Rippers tek (it is very similar) out for further info....


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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84792 - 04/15/00 10:28 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Heheheh, you guys crack me up. You realise you don't need any of this shit right. Look in TMC, on page 19, that's all you need. A finished wood enclosure with a plexi-glass lid and a rubber seal around the glass. I built mine for less that $100, with all the locking arm shit and flexible arm extensions and heavy rubber gloves. No need to filter or HEPA a closed box, no air, no contams.

Not that I don't think this stuff isn't cool, I build shit all the time. Currently for fruiting I monitor heat at 3 points, in substrate level, air level and at casing surface level, all controller to 1 degree. I would like a humidistat though, how much was the one from FP Indolio?



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84793 - 04/15/00 01:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

quote:
Originally posted by dirtydog:
Heheheh, you guys crack me up. You realise you don't need any of this shit right. Look in TMC, on page 19, that's all you need. A finished wood enclosure with a plexi-glass lid and a rubber seal around the glass. I built mine for less that $100, with all the locking arm shit and flexible arm extensions and heavy rubber gloves. No need to filter or HEPA a closed box, no air, no contams.

Not that I don't think this stuff isn't cool, I build shit all the time. Currently for fruiting I monitor heat at 3 points, in substrate level, air level and at casing surface level, all controller to 1 degree. I would like a humidistat though, how much was the one from FP Indolio?


Actually I do personally. Dead air glove boxes are a thing of the past. In fact TMC is built on what is now can be termed 40 to 50 year old technology and knowledge and many in the industry agree its pretty damn long in the tooth. GGMM is less out of date at ~20 year old technology and does a pretty good push for leaving dead air glove boxes in the past.

Now this really doesn't effect you hobbyists that much per se because Cubies are dead easy to grow and you can pretty much make mistakes left and right with the methods and still succeed. More important, I am not really going to be doing any "magic mushroom" growing anymore (no say it ain't so!) Instead, I'm going to be doing Gormets and Medicinals where you joing the ranks of "you better have your act together". I am no longer going to be working with spores but with culture slants and culture libraries, agars, breeder factories and the like.

My last cube experiments if you think about it are actaully launching platforms into the realm of the edibles. I just hope to leave a trail of good information that you all can pull back into the "magic" realm.


...take my hand and I can lift you up with me...

The Learner

[This message has been edited by The Learner (edited April 15, 2000).]



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Anonymous

Re: PF cubensis Air Exchange
    #84794 - 04/16/00 02:12 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The HC-201 Humidistat is $165 from FP. Shit accurate at low humidity, accurate at 80% rH, accurate as hell 85-100%rH. Sez it's +/- 5% rH but relays clicked in tandem with my digital which is -1%rH. You'll need to wire it, but it's a simple job. Requires mounting through the enclosure wall, although you could probably rig it some other way (i.e. entirely in the enclosure). You may want to check with the manufacturer to see if you might be able to get it for less than $165:

Siebe Environmental Controls
Loves Park, IL 61111 http://www.siebe-env-controls.com/

You can contact them to locate resellers or sales reps in your area.

And yes, I know don't need all this shit. But when I'm done I'll have a box that requires nothing from me except a wall outlet and water for the humidifier. No spraying, no heating pads, no fanning.



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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, HEPA Filter, Paul Stamets, Perlite, Ultrasonic Humidifier

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