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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: psyka]
    #8315615 -

Yea, the entire reason we build houses is to get revenge on the insects :rolleyes:

In Tibet at one time when someone dug a hole or a ditch they would sift every shovel of dirt and remove all worms and insects unharmed. They practiced non violence and it also took them many times longer to get anything done.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Icelander]
    #8315736 -

Thats pretty cool.

I still don't see how being unaware of all the beings you kill equates to aggression.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8315906 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
"Every move you make, every breath you take" Think on these things.


I long suspected you were actually Sting.

:rofl2:


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: psyka]
    #8316067 -

psyka said:
Thats pretty cool.

I still don't see how being unaware of all the beings you kill equates to aggression.


We are unaware of it by choice. I'm aware of it. It's a naturally aggressive act we take for granted because you can't really help it. It's part and parcel of being an animal.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Veritas]
    #8318155 -

Aggression exists. One can suppress it like some may suppress sexual feelings because they think they are "dirty". This type of suppression often causes the expression of aggression to become out of control. Look at our societies puritan views on sexuality, then look at how sexually dysfunctional so many "puritans" are. Suppression itself is force and force is aggression...there is no escaping it. Suppression leads to the fragmentation of self. Acceptance seems to be the road to the whole self functioning as one unit with integrity. This is what I have come to think.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8318199 -

When I was working out, I would release all of my potential bound up energy to finish whatever set I was on, which had the feeling of a neutral aggression within it.

If your definition of aggression has anger and hostility in it... doesn't that mean there is an important self that needs defense?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Icelander]
    #8318253 -

Just become aware whatever arises in yourself.

Whatever arises is natural as it is part of nature, part of life.

All this talk of this is right & wrong is also natural, but when you become fully aware, what is wrong fades away, what is right perpetuates.

Dont say "i shouldn't hate im such a bad person, im so angry & agressive" :frown:
You can feel it is wrong, naturally, but just become aware of it, when your aware of it you accept it, then you start to see how the mind does it over & over and then you can consciously break the cycle. Only though awareness can you break the cycles, otherwise the problem seems like a conflict of resistance, the mind resists, which gives it more power, instead of it becoming a growing experience which every single thing in life is, an experience for growth.

If your an angry person first of all you have to accept it (much like admission of alcoholism is the first step to recovery) then become conscious of when you become angry. Recently ive loved getting angry & irritated because during it i stop then i laugh at how ridiculous & useless it is!

Awareness is the only thing that anyone needs. Simple awareness, observational witnessing.

:peace:


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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8318426 -

Aggression is an action, not an emotion, and therefore it is inaccurate to discuss "suppressing" it. This is like saying "child molestation exists, so it would be unhealthy to suppress it."

If someone is angered, decides that their anger is justified because someone outside of themselves "deserves" it, and then opts to attack them, they are ACTING out aggression. This is far more complex than the initial emotional reaction.

Even with emotions, it is not a choice between suppressing them or acting upon them. Suppression means that you do not allow yourself to feel an emotion, not that you refrain from acting upon it. One can fully feel their anger, and still not indulge in aggression.

As I said earlier, I think you are using the incorrect term. Aggression is a particular action one undertakes, and is often motivated by an emotional reaction. The underlying emotional energy one uses in order to engage in aggression (attacks, hostility, destruction) can be redirected into non-aggressive activities...which is what you are talking about. This means that the energy is NOT aggression, as it was never acted out in such a manner.

Edited by Veritas (04/23/08 11:55 AM)

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Veritas]
    #8322023 -

I come in late to support the clarity of Veritas.

aggression is not an emotion it is an activity related to territoriality.

animal behavior has much to do with territoriality.

emotionally it is related to fear and anger which will elicit mental state changes that will involve shifts in signal fading, layering etc.

one can become a junky to aggression, which is arguably a self perpetuating activity that connects to the emotional ramp to dreamstuff.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8336932 -

I'll concede it is not an emotion, but there is a biological drive that encourages aggressive behavior in humans. This is what I am addressing.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8336991 -

I disagree.  We have a biological drive towards self-preservation, but this need not be translated into hostility and destruction.  Again, aggression is not the ROOT drive, nor a root emotion, but rather an unhealthy mental construct superimposed upon our natural drives and emotions.  When we characterize someone or something as a threat to our self, prior to any actual attack which would require self-defense, we are mentally creating justification for aggressive action.

Self-defense or assertion of one's rights need not involve hostility, attacks, destruction, etc...and allow us to act upon our basic drive towards self-preservation.  If someone is aggressive towards us, we can act in our own defense without being aggressive.

I simply cannot agree with you that the warlike mentality which initiates aggression is healthy, nor that it is a basic drive which will cause problems when suppressed.  There is no need for suppression when one can simply dispute the irrational beliefs which constructed the "justification" in the first place. :shrug:

Claiming that aggression is a biological imperative is similar to claiming that rape should not be "suppressed" because we have a natural drive to reproduce.

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Veritas]
    #8337024 -

I think that your personal prejudices are stopping you from understanding what I am saying so I can't address you. We are discussing different subjects.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8337058 -

As I said before, you are mistakenly referring to this as "aggression," when you really mean the motivating force which we choose to use for aggression, assertion, fitness, etc...  The actions are not the same as the motivation.

In case you missed it the first time:

Quote:
Aggression
1. The act of initiating hostilities or invasion.
2. The practice or habit of launching attacks.
3. Hostile or destructive behavior or actions



Notice that "emotion" and "biological drive" do not appear in the definition of this word.  We are not discussing different subjects, YOU are mistaken in your terms.  My "personal prejudices" have nothing to do with it, unless you consider using a dictionary prejudicial.  :wink:

If I channel my biological drive towards self-preservation into vigorous exercise, this is not a hostile act.  If I stand up for myself when someone encroaches upon my boundaries, I am not being aggressive, I am being assertive.

Edited by Veritas (04/28/08 10:41 AM)

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Veritas]
    #8337404 -

Definitions are not always set in stone. Here is another one:

Quote:
Aggression:
a form of behavior which leads to self-assertion


What is a good term for that motivating force? I guess fear is the ultimate root, but our reactions to fear are not always aggressive, sometimes they are defensive. I believe that a certain amount of aggressive/assertive behavior is healthy and normal if expressed in a healthy manner. Suppressing it or calling it "wrong" is not the way to go about dealing with these feelings.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8337480 -

No, definitions are not set in stone, but they do usually have some relationship with their etymology. The root of the word "aggression" is "aggressio," which means attack. This has nothing to do with self-assertion.

More:

Quote:
In psychology and other social and behavioral sciences, aggression refers to behavior that is intended to cause harm or pain. Aggression can be either physical or verbal. Behavior that accidentally causes harm or pain is not aggression. Property damage and other destructive behavior may also fall under the definition of aggression. Aggression is not the same thing as assertiveness.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression

The Wiki article is quite interesting, as it draws a clear correlation between levels of free testosterone in the blood and aggressive actions.

I still say that aggression is NOT a feeling, but a choice of action based upon an emotion. Our drive towards self-preservation triggers emotional reactions such as fear or anger, which we then choose to interpret in a particular manner. Someone who is habitually aggressive will choose to respond with hostility and initiation of attacks. Refraining from aggressive ACTS is not suppression, but choosing non-harmful behavior.

Would you say that rape is a non-beneficial manner of reacting to natural sexual urges? Would you recommend accepting this type of ACTION (aggression is an action) as opposed to refraining from this type of action? Would this constitute an unhealthy suppression of the natural, biologically-based urge towards sexual activity?

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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: Veritas]
    #8337561 -

Quote:
Would this constitute an unhealthy suppression of the natural, biologically-based urge towards sexual activity?


Yes. :yesnod:


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Re: The Power of Aggression [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8337726 -

:rofl:

You're twisted maaan.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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