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Offlineekomstop
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Characters in dreams
    #2545257 - 04/09/04 11:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Who or what are they, exactly?  Anybody given this much thought?

One popular assumption (#1) is that if a person you know plays a role in your dream (say your friend Bob, for example), that basically all aspects of Bob your mind has collected over time through interaction with him while awake, will essentially make up who "dream" Bob is. 

Sounds like a reasonable assumption..Yes?  What about the dream characters you don't know in real life?

An assumption (#2) to this might be, these dream "people" or entities could basically be products created in your mind for the sole purpose of playing a role in your dream..based on your minds collected memory of all entities it has come into concact with throughout waking life.

Maybe so.  Anyone disagree with either of these statements at all?  They do sound like reasonable assumptions to me.  I don't mean to restrict the basis of this post to these two assumptions, especially if there are other ideas that may hold more weight here (if you have any in mind please share!), but these seem to be the only two I can think of at the moment..

I have been thinking about the possibility of a third element that may hold some additional weight in regards to the other entities that seem to appear so frequently in most (I'd assume) if not all of our dreams.  Before I go off saying maybe it would be worth considering there may some 'external' factors at work in dreams (while I can't deny it seems to me there very well could be) I am currently making an attempt at exploring different possibilities that dreams and the events that occur within them are all essentially a product of, and in turn take place entirely inside the experiencers mind.

So, if this is the case,  then I wonder, why is it so that dreams can have such a huge impact on a person on so many levels?  If everything that occurs in a dream is a product of your very own mind, how can some of the events that take place during them come as such an emotional shock to an individual?  All experiences would essentially have to be a part of YOU, would they not?  Have the emotions they can potentially bring to the surface simply been buried for so long that we have forgotten they were even there?  Did we ever know they were there in the first place?  If not, how did they get there?

Anyway..lately I have been dabbling with thoughts that seem to suggest a possible kind of A.I. created by the mind for your entertainment and learning pleasure, in dreams.  I have noticed repeatedly in dreams, alot of the characters involved seem to behave like they have their own agenda, as if they are 'extras' like in a movie.  Why are they in my dream?  To set the stage, perhaps..to create the perfect environment for that particular dream (experience).

So, now my question is....Who or what is controlling these characters?  Sure, going by assumption #2, they may essentially be a product of my mind..but again, alot of the time they do seem to be acting out of their own agenda, and, perhaps are not there for the sole purpose of influencing my perception of the experience.

Getting back to the thought of a kind of (artificial?) intelligence taking place, the only reference I can think of at the moment would be a certain aspect of Mckenna's (of course) description of his encounters with what he called "self transforming elf machine", things.  Yes, those things...please don't hit me.. :smile:  Anyway, he described their ability to 'spit' out other impossible looking 'elf machines'.. and, these 'new' secondary creatures could then produce their own next generation of creatures..and so on.  An endless ongoing process of apparent conscious entities producing new independently conscious entities, which are in turn able to produce more, and more, and more.

Although "self transforming elf machine" type creatures may not necessary sound like a valid basis for a theory regarding anything..Please, bare with me for a moment.

The connection I am trying to make here is, assuming these 'self transforming elf machines' are in some sense pure consciousness as is what I would think might be active inside the dreamstate, that perhaps, while we dream, our mind in some sense might be able to take on this ability, and produce (temporary?) extentions of itself, which can then manifest into their own independent consciousness, and go about their business as if they were seperate from the source that created them.

Now that I think about it, that almost sounds like we could be taking a role as what the concept of 'god' suggests, while we dream..creating extentions of ourself, all the while those extentions explore and learn on their own, subjectively.  The thing that really bugs me about this idea is, when and how did I even choose to create these extentions of myself in the first place?  Would the information they collect during their subjective experience come back to me when I wake up?  Or would some aspect of their subjectivity continue to exist beyond that?

This is just me tossing some more ideas around, again I have no idea what to believe, or if I will ever find myself able to come to any conclusions.  Though I am very curious what others' take on this phenomenon may be.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2545266 - 04/09/04 11:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Dang man! You should see some of the hotties in my dreams. Woo hoo! :loveeyes:


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2545322 - 04/10/04 12:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I always wonder about my dreams... alot of times my dreams will be situations I'm dealing with in life , other times they are random with no similarity to any of my memories and it seems my mind created the dream, yet others there seems to be an unknown force controlling things my proof of this unknown factor involved is this: 4 times have I had dreams so accurately predictive that there could be no other explanation for them except some sort of esp. This is all from my personal perspective, though. I think my dreams demonstrate to me 3 aspects : the mind and its ego as contemplates life issues, the random seemingly distant dream that my mind creates, and then the ones with the 3rd force involved... of course, it's not like I only have 3 different types of dreams... the 3 aspects intertwine to make my dream life.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2545897 - 04/10/04 04:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>4 times have I had dreams so accurately predictive that there could be no other explanation for them except some sort of esp. This is all from my personal perspective
-That changes everything.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2545957 - 04/10/04 06:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think dreams are a place where i can see all the meaningful symbols in my life up close. Maybe they are reminders of what im living for.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2545986 - 04/10/04 07:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

4 times have I had dreams so accurately predictive that there could be no other explanation for them except some sort of esp

Maybe, maybe not. Why is no one ever able to post their predictive dreams for later verification? 300,000,000 + Americans and no reports of 9/11 premonitions. I once dreamt that I would do laundry the next day and it happened!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2545990 - 04/10/04 07:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if a person you know plays a role in your dream (say your friend Bob, for example),

*Swami gets chills* How could you have possibly known about my friend Bob?  :oogle:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2546238 - 04/10/04 11:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have wondered this as well. 

there have been people that I have seen in my dream that I had enver seen before.  voices were unique as well.

now with assumptions....

1) before we go into what might be controlling these figures, why not ask, "where" are the dreams taking place?

2) Are they real...in the sense that these entities are dictated by the same laws of physics and emotions that we have?

3) is it just in our heads...or is our brain "tuning" into something else? 

"So, if this is the case, then I wonder, why is it so that dreams can have such a huge impact on a person on so many levels? If everything that occurs in a dream is a product of your very own mind, how can some of the events that take place during them come as such an emotional shock to an individual? All experiences would essentially have to be a part of YOU, would they not? Have the emotions they can potentially bring to the surface simply been buried for so long that we have forgotten they were even there? Did we ever know they were there in the first place? If not, how did they get there?"

thinking about this, maybe the mind doesn't know it's creating these images and places, or at least the ego. If that is the case it would be very strange indeed.  we would have to know how the unconcsious mind works, and where is the source of all this information if the mind is indeed "unconscious"

what if the mind did know what it is doing at the unconscious level....that would be even stranger!

hmmm...need to think about this more

great post!!!!  :thumbup:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Swami]
    #2546515 - 04/10/04 01:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

DUde, ShroomHermit, and mainly Swami... these dreams were NOT grand predictive dreams like seeing the twin towers fall, or the president getting assinated... they were subtle... I will list one example : I dreamed that I came home , and walked into a room and my dad was sitting there... he said "i'm sorry, an old friend of ours has passed away" , and then in the dream I walked off to my room and just sort of floated in mourning... the whole time the dream has a fuzzy feeling to it, which I associate with other premonition dreams..... , the next day after school, I come home(having totally forgot about my dream) and my dad is sitting in the exact same chair and he says ' I have something to tell you' all of a sudden it came back and i KNEW what he was going to tell me... and he did... it happened JUST as it did in the dream , and the details were so acurate there is no doubt in my mind an unknown force was involved.... and no, the lady who died wasent in ER or cancerous... She was healthy, besides old age, and her death was VERY unexpected... thats one of the 4 dreams I've had that are proof to me.... Just thought I would clarify as to why I dident call 911 to stop her from dying


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2546652 - 04/10/04 02:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>Who or what are they, exactly? Anybody given this much thought?
-Freud has. He says that in a dream you play every one.

>If everything that occurs in a dream is a product of your very own mind, how can some of the events that take place during them come as such an emotional shock to an individual?
-Maybe the sub-conciousness plays a role in dreams.

2experimental: You've only had four dreams that seemed to predict events? At your age you've probably had thousands of dreams. How many events from each dream could have been later linked as a prediction? Probably hundreds. Probability would explain this, and also why "god is spontaneous" at granting favors.

I think your mind may have added more details to your memory of the dream after the fact.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2546668 - 04/10/04 02:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Your wrong, because the number of 'supposed' premonition dreams i've had  is WAY high.. in the hundreds... but I later realized it was coincidence, my mind, other factors... The point here is not trying to prove esp... it's trying to prove there is an unknown factor involved... and to ME, this is proved by the four undeniably premonistic dreams I have had......"""">Who or what are they, exactly? Anybody given this much thought?
-Freud has. He says that in a dream you play every one.
""" I think ekomstop meant if anyone here had personal imput to what dreams are :smile:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547302 - 04/10/04 11:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

A few questions:

1. Would you consider the dream a premonition if your father's friend had died two days later instead of one?

2. How old is your father?

3. How many friends does he have?

4. How many similar dreams did not come true?

5. Will you wager on your next premonition coming true?


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Swami]
    #2547334 - 04/10/04 11:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Would you consider the dream a premonition if your father's friend had died two days later instead of one"

As long as it happened the same as it did in the dream


"How many similar dreams did not come true"
It is not about the ones that did not come true. It's about the fact that some did come true , undeniably accurate, and that alone proves the existence of some higher 'power' , because such things like this are not on the scientific level, like proving if water droplets form a pattern over time, let alone plain scientific standards.

"Will you wager on your next premonition coming true"
No, because how would I know if it was a premonition until it came true? Don't take me wrong. I am not saying I some how tuned into forces that I can not see, I am saying that Those unknown forces were somehow tuned into me, and got a glimpse of something un earthly. These events happen to millions across the Earth, but they either do not realize it, do not remember it, or misinterpret the information in destructive manor.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547375 - 04/11/04 12:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Would you consider the dream a premonition if your father's friend had died two days later instead of one"

As long as it happened the same as it did in the dream

What is the time limit for a prediction to be accurate? 5 days, a month, 1 year, 10 years, none? I predict that Don Rickles will die "soon".

It is not about the ones that did not come true.
No, of course not as that would "dilute" the predictions to mere chance.

No, because how would I know if it was a premonition until it came true?
Nice, albeit meaningless, tautology.

These events happen to millions across the Earth, but they either do not realize it, do not remember it, or misinterpret the information in destructive manor.
AS ALWAYS, here comes the wiggling about why mystic events are not noted. Is the millions "out there" that are blind; never possible that you are mistaken.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Swami]
    #2547460 - 04/11/04 12:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"What is the time limit for a prediction to be accurate? 5 days, a month, 1 year, 10 years, none? I predict that Don Rickles will die "soon". "

Sheesh man, miss my flow the first time? If you did, there is no time limit on predictive dreams. And no, saying Don will die soon is not predicting... tell me the color of the shirt , the reason he died , where he was, that is predicting.


"AS ALWAYS, here comes the wiggling about why mystic events are not noted. Is the millions "out there" that are blind; never possible that you are mistaken"
Mistaken? No I think your mistaken. Don't take it that I am saying that what I have discovered on my own path is in any way meant for anyone else to experience. People who do not understand religion correctly bother me. Buddah and Jesus and All the others, did not mean to be made into public figures, rather they hoped their message would be passed on as knowledge into the subject of the unknown factors. I'm sure they realized the possibility of humans crystalizing their teachings into creeds, and using it for power, but did they hope we would take the message that way: no. The true religion is your own. That been said I DO think some people out there are 'mistaken' in their own personal interpreation/interaction(religion?) of the world... do I even have to site the endless list of deeds done that all would agree 'wrong'.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547501 - 04/11/04 12:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>It is not about the ones that did not come true. It's about the fact that some did come true , undeniably accurate, and that alone proves the existence of some higher 'power'
-Correctly guessing winning lottery numbers is pretty amazing; after all it takes such an accurate number to win. It will seem even more amazing if you dismiss the fact that 10,000 other tickets you bought that same day didn't come true.

Every now and then something will happen in a dream that bears remarkable resemblance to something occuring in real life. Any one particular event in a dream will have a very small chance of being reproduced in real life, but so many things happen during the course of a dream. Just as buying 10,000 lottery tickets every night will eventually lead to winning the jackpot, you are bound to run into some spooky occurances every now and then.

>how would I know if it was a premonition until it came true?
-It's only considered a premonition after it's accuracy has been demonstrated... but what about all the things that didn't happen like it did in the dream. You mind takes the one in ten thousand things that actually "came true" and explains it as a premonition. Whats the point of a premonition (A warning in advance) if you can't distinguish it untill after the fact?

Think of a 3 digit number. Now, let me guess at it an unlimited amount of times; don't worry I'll eventually get it. Under your current thinking, the one time I got it right was undeniably accurate... and you will forget about all the numbers that I guess that didn't even come close.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547529 - 04/11/04 12:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

" you are bound to run into some spooky occurances every now and then"

Is that so? So can you list any psychic dreams you have had that you remember exact details in the last 1o years?

"It's only considered a premonition after it's accuracy has been demonstrated"
That would be if you are measuring on scientific standards, and if I recall, it has never been done.


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547533 - 04/11/04 12:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ekomstop said:
Who or what are they, exactly?  Anybody given this much thought?

One popular assumption (#1) is that if a person you know plays a role in your dream (say your friend Bob, for example), that basically all aspects of Bob your mind has collected over time through interaction with him while awake, will essentially make up who "dream" Bob is. 

Sounds like a reasonable assumption..Yes?  What about the dream characters you don't know in real life?

An assumption (#2) to this might be, these dream "people" or entities could basically be products created in your mind for the sole purpose of playing a role in your dream..based on your minds collected memory of all entities it has come into concact with throughout waking life.

Maybe so.  Anyone disagree with either of these statements at all?  They do sound like reasonable assumptions to me.  I don't mean to restrict the basis of this post to these two assumptions, especially if there are other ideas that may hold more weight here (if you have any in mind please share!), but these seem to be the only two I can think of at the moment..

I have been thinking about the possibility of a third element that may hold some additional weight in regards to the other entities that seem to appear so frequently in most (I'd assume) if not all of our dreams.  Before I go off saying maybe it would be worth considering there may some 'external' factors at work in dreams (while I can't deny it seems to me there very well could be) I am currently making an attempt at exploring different possibilities that dreams and the events that occur within them are all essentially a product of, and in turn take place entirely inside the experiencers mind.

So, if this is the case,  then I wonder, why is it so that dreams can have such a huge impact on a person on so many levels?  If everything that occurs in a dream is a product of your very own mind, how can some of the events that take place during them come as such an emotional shock to an individual?  All experiences would essentially have to be a part of YOU, would they not?  Have the emotions they can potentially bring to the surface simply been buried for so long that we have forgotten they were even there?  Did we ever know they were there in the first place?  If not, how did they get there?

Anyway..lately I have been dabbling with thoughts that seem to suggest a possible kind of A.I. created by the mind for your entertainment and learning pleasure, in dreams.  I have noticed repeatedly in dreams, alot of the characters involved seem to behave like they have their own agenda, as if they are 'extras' like in a movie.  Why are they in my dream?  To set the stage, perhaps..to create the perfect environment for that particular dream (experience).

So, now my question is....Who or what is controlling these characters?  Sure, going by assumption #2, they may essentially be a product of my mind..but again, alot of the time they do seem to be acting out of their own agenda, and, perhaps are not there for the sole purpose of influencing my perception of the experience.

Getting back to the thought of a kind of (artificial?) intelligence taking place, the only reference I can think of at the moment would be a certain aspect of Mckenna's (of course) description of his encounters with what he called "self transforming elf machine", things.  Yes, those things...please don't hit me.. :smile:  Anyway, he described their ability to 'spit' out other impossible looking 'elf machines'.. and, these 'new' secondary creatures could then produce their own next generation of creatures..and so on.  An endless ongoing process of apparent conscious entities producing new independently conscious entities, which are in turn able to produce more, and more, and more.

Although "self transforming elf machine" type creatures may not necessary sound like a valid basis for a theory regarding anything..Please, bare with me for a moment.

The connection I am trying to make here is, assuming these 'self transforming elf machines' are in some sense pure consciousness as is what I would think might be active inside the dreamstate, that perhaps, while we dream, our mind in some sense might be able to take on this ability, and produce (temporary?) extentions of itself, which can then manifest into their own independent consciousness, and go about their business as if they were seperate from the source that created them.

Now that I think about it, that almost sounds like we could be taking a role as "god" while we dream..creating extentions of ourself, all the while those extentions explore and learn on their own, subjectively.  The thing that really bugs me about this idea is, when and how did I even choose to create these extentions of myself in the first place?  Would the information they collect during their subjective experience come back to me when I wake up?  Or would some aspect of their subjectivity continue to exist beyond that?

This is just me tossing some more ideas around, again I have no idea what to believe, or if I will ever find myself able to come to any conclusions.  Though I am very curious what others' take on this phenomenon may be.




They are just manifestations of the human mind.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547563 - 04/11/04 01:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>tell me the color of the shirt , the reason he died , where he was, that is predicting.
-But it was proof to you in only 2 circumstances. 1) your dad was sitting in a particular chair 2) a friend of his died
Does your father usually sit in a particular chair?

>the dream has a fuzzy feeling to it, which I associate with other premonition dreams
>it happened JUST as it did in the dream , and the details were so acurate
-I suggested earlier that you filled in details to your memory of the dream based on what occured in real life. You described your dream as fuzzy; many of the details in dreams seems to be lost after you wake up. Later when your dream seemed to be comming real all of the details happened to be exactly the same? Maybe as you were experiencing the real life version, the details suddenly filled into the originally blurred details of the dream. This seems like better reasoning than the details of your dream affecting events in real life.

>The true religion is your own. That been said I DO think some people out there are 'mistaken'
-All personal truths are true to that person. Does that mean all personal truths are true? Well then, what does that say about personal truths?


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547582 - 04/11/04 01:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"But it was proof to you in only 2 circumstances. 1) your dad was sitting in a particular chair 2) a friend of his died
Does your father usually sit in a particular chair?"
Only 2 I listed... do you really I think I am going to list out all the details I remmebered here, and do you think I would call 2 details undeniable proof?

"You described your dream as fuzzy"
Once again you misinterpreted what I meant by fuzzy. The story of all conversation. Let me clarrify. Fuzzy not as a un sureness of remembering things, rather, a fuzzy feeling, something very hard to describe, but I would label as diffinatly not un pleasurable.


"All personal truths are true to that person. Does that mean all personal truths are true"

My statement implyed that there is a universal truth , but the path that one must reach to it are personal. So if you want to get to semantics, all personal truths are true on that level, but not on All levels.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547624 - 04/11/04 01:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>"It's only considered a premonition after it's accuracy has been demonstrated"
That would be if you are measuring on scientific standards, and if I recall, it has never been done.
-Sorry, but it was your subjective account that I was speaking of... never did I bring up any way to measure this other than your own judgment.
"how would I know if it was a premonition until it came true?" is admitting you couldn't tell the father-chair bit in the dream was a premonition untill after it demonstrated "undeniable" accuracy.

>Is that so? So can you list any psychic dreams you have had that you remember exact details in the last 1o years?
-I have never had a psychic dream. (Questions that are based on themselves are often impossible to answer without concession. Why did X-files stop being a good a good television show when it started sucking? Only a person willing to concede that X-files lost it's touch could give an answer to that.)


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547698 - 04/11/04 01:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>do you think I would call 2 details undeniable proof?
-You had only listen two. Even if you had listed a hundred accuracies I'd still be here casting doubt; it's not healthy to create undeniable proof of the existance of a higher being based on a dream.
Does your father usually sit in a particular chair?

>Once again you misinterpreted what I meant by fuzzy. The story of all conversation.
-Well, it seems I do that alot. In the interest of saving time, I suggest using correct spelling or more accurate words. You grammer is terrible, but I can still follow. If you are going to right about 4 seperate ideas, they should by all rights be in 4 seperate sentences... I often lose meaning (and interest) in a long, rambling, run-on sentence. Generally, this is a good way to operate for anyone wishing to be understood well.

>Let me clarrify. Fuzzy not as a un sureness of remembering things, rather, a fuzzy feeling, something very hard to describe, but I would label as diffinatly not un pleasurable.
-After reading this I still need an explanation. Is there anyone following this that has a good idea what 2experimental means?

>My statement implyed that there is a universal truth , but the path that one must reach to it are personal.
-It seems to me that people who develop personal truths are actually growing away from a universal truth. As a satanist and a christian develop a more complex and concrete belief system, with more and more personal truths... you are saying they are moving closer to the universal truth?

>all personal truths are true on that level, but not on All levels.
-So each person is 100% correct in there own reality... but in the reality that includes everyone this isn't so. My point is still, what does that say about personal personal truths?


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547814 - 04/11/04 02:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, do some people ever seem to enjoy ripping apart peoples posts.. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree pointing out a few holes in ones claims seems somewhat necessary at times, but I mean, know when to quit.. He had an interesting personal experience, and he shared it with us.  Why would anyone feel the need to question his experience so heavily?  Sure it may or may not have been a genuine premonition..you may or may not agree with his thoughts regarding the experience..but in either case, what kind of an explanation are you looking for anyway?

These kinds of experiences are obviously a subjective thing, and usually seem to be far from easy to put into words.  Genuine or not, it was his experience, and even  if it was successfully described without any 'holes' to attack, I'm not sure anyone who didn't have the experience for themselves would truly be capable of understanding exactly how he felt when it actually happened.  If he felt his experience was significant..then it was.  For him.  Why demand an explanation?

Sorry, I've just been noticing alot of seemingly unnecessary dissecting and criticizing of posts lately..moreso than usual.  I'd agree, alot of the time they do have their place, but I mean..know when to draw the line.  :mushroom2:


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OfflineDNICEONER
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547819 - 04/11/04 02:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone ever seen the film Waking Life......Its sick


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547821 - 04/11/04 02:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

A counselor once told me that the dreams we have, although seemingly randomly made up of people and things, contain the people and things that our minds put there, due to past, present and future experiences.

She said that in order to find out what your dream was about, you have to question each thing in your dream and ask what it is doing there. You will have the answer because you put the person or thing in your dream in the first place. You have to "be" the person or thing, and then answer your own questions.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Frog]
    #2547908 - 04/11/04 03:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, that does seem to make alot of sense..that is if dreams are infact all you.. :smile:

I guess one might say a dream could be some kind of presentation of a series of analogical metaphors..based on the present arrangement of the individuals past, present and (future?) cognitions..

Although if this is true..what about lucid dreaming?  This would seem to disrupt what has been arranged for you inside an (organized?) dream..allowing you change its course..to interact with it on a different level.  Unless maybe going lucid was inevitable, and is actually a part of that dream..

Hmm..I do believe it's now time for some :stash: before I go :nut:


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: DNICEONER]
    #2547915 - 04/11/04 03:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DNICEONER said:
Has anyone ever seen the film Waking Life......Its sick




Indeed..that is one brilliant movie.    :thumbup: :thumbup:


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547917 - 04/11/04 03:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Good point, ekomstop.  There must be different types of dreams.  I suppose the analyzation I am speaking of would apply to what I call "fake" dreams, or the dreams I have that won't come true. 

There are other dreams, wherein you dream of something that is going to happen in the future (which I call "real" dreams), and then of course lucid dreaming.  I suppose in those types of dreams, you wouldn't do the analysis that the counselor discussed.

I'll be there's a whole lot of research that can be done on this issue.  I am assigning the task to Skorpivo.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Frog]
    #2547931 - 04/11/04 03:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I'll be there's a whole lot of research that can be done on this issue.  I am assigning the task to Skorpivo.  :grin:




Excellent.  I believe fireworks_god is expecting the results on his desk by tuesday morning for review.  :shocked:  :shocked:

:grin:


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547934 - 04/11/04 03:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>I mean..know when to draw the line.
-I think the argument might have ended sooner if he wasn't drinking and I wasn't sleep deprived.

I used to think that individual truths didn't harm anyone. After reading the about the crusades I started thinking that maybe it's not such a good idea to hold personal truths as absolute ones. If I see someone fusing illusion into reality and accepting it as truth, I'll try to plant a seed of doubt.

I don't encourage personal truths because it leads to a working fantasy. People stuck in this personal reality make decisions based on the fantasy world instead of the real world; these actions affect my life!

For all I know, next week 2Experimental could dream that I kill him. After a series of coincidences he concludes that his dreams are comming true and must now kill his imagined killer. This may seem like an extreme example (and a rip on an upcomming TV show) but it definantly has a point.

That being said, it was a free exchange of ideas and no one was physically harmed. I personally steered away from insults, and although the topic may have wandered it did stay within a general theme.


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547936 - 04/11/04 03:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Fireworks_god has some mighty high expectations.  :lol:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547985 - 04/11/04 03:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I understand, man, and I agree.  Living in a fantasy is probably not the best way to live, especially when one is unaware of this.  Though I can't say I agree with your attacks on his grammar and spelling...heh..I'm definitely not anywhere near perfect in that respect, either.  Though posting on here seems like good practice :smile: 

As you said, he isn't hurting anyone with his beliefs..that is a pretty extreme scenario you described..I'm not sure it would really come down to something like that.. but who knows.  Delusion does seem like a serious issue..but I mean..What if his experiences were actually valid examples of precognition?  There doesn't seem to be any way to know for sure from our perspective..but personally I wouldn't automatically assume it is bogus..or genuine for that matter..either way, I can see where you're coming from.

I guess all I can do from this end is hope everyone here keeps a firm grasp on this reality if they do choose to explore these 'alternatives'..

I appologise for questioning your responses.  Attempting to sew a seed of doubt in someone who might need it definitely sounds like a good thing, however, if that person isn't willing to accept it...


Edited by ekomstop (04/11/04 04:11 AM)


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2548456 - 04/11/04 11:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the support : ) You make some points I think some people have yet to realize...


"Although if this is true..what about lucid dreaming? This would seem to disrupt what has been arranged for you inside an (organized?) dream..allowing you change its course..to interact with it on a different level. Unless maybe going lucid was inevitable, and is actually a part of that dream" .........I am not sure about lucid dreaming, as I have only had a few. I think lucid dreaming is a higher state of awareness, where ones mind breaks free of the hold they have to Earth, and realizes they are dreaming, yet still can maintian control and be relaxed... I find when I realize I am dreaming I almost always wake up from either fear/uncertainty/other factors, and very rarely do I remain lucid. I think lucid dreams offer a great possibility for self improvement if learned to be mastered. I also think they would be used for the wrong reasons, but who is to say what is wrong or right in the dream world.


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Anonymous

Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2548597 - 04/11/04 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was talking to a lady about dreams. There is a man but I cant remember his name that came up with a theory that every thing in a dream ie. bushes, rhode blocks, people, cars, tables, lights, night, day and so on all have a meaning. A meditation of going back and recounting your steps of your dream in the morning and writting down every detail is a good idea. Then put your self in each objects shoe wether its living or inanimate. And ask your self Why am I here? What am I doing? What am I trying to say? What am I trying to show my self. When you do this for every thing in your dream.. You will have a deeper understanding about your phschy (sp?).


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