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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547624 - 04/11/04 01:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>"It's only considered a premonition after it's accuracy has been demonstrated"
That would be if you are measuring on scientific standards, and if I recall, it has never been done.
-Sorry, but it was your subjective account that I was speaking of... never did I bring up any way to measure this other than your own judgment.
"how would I know if it was a premonition until it came true?" is admitting you couldn't tell the father-chair bit in the dream was a premonition untill after it demonstrated "undeniable" accuracy.

>Is that so? So can you list any psychic dreams you have had that you remember exact details in the last 1o years?
-I have never had a psychic dream. (Questions that are based on themselves are often impossible to answer without concession. Why did X-files stop being a good a good television show when it started sucking? Only a person willing to concede that X-files lost it's touch could give an answer to that.)


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547698 - 04/11/04 01:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>do you think I would call 2 details undeniable proof?
-You had only listen two. Even if you had listed a hundred accuracies I'd still be here casting doubt; it's not healthy to create undeniable proof of the existance of a higher being based on a dream.
Does your father usually sit in a particular chair?

>Once again you misinterpreted what I meant by fuzzy. The story of all conversation.
-Well, it seems I do that alot. In the interest of saving time, I suggest using correct spelling or more accurate words. You grammer is terrible, but I can still follow. If you are going to right about 4 seperate ideas, they should by all rights be in 4 seperate sentences... I often lose meaning (and interest) in a long, rambling, run-on sentence. Generally, this is a good way to operate for anyone wishing to be understood well.

>Let me clarrify. Fuzzy not as a un sureness of remembering things, rather, a fuzzy feeling, something very hard to describe, but I would label as diffinatly not un pleasurable.
-After reading this I still need an explanation. Is there anyone following this that has a good idea what 2experimental means?

>My statement implyed that there is a universal truth , but the path that one must reach to it are personal.
-It seems to me that people who develop personal truths are actually growing away from a universal truth. As a satanist and a christian develop a more complex and concrete belief system, with more and more personal truths... you are saying they are moving closer to the universal truth?

>all personal truths are true on that level, but not on All levels.
-So each person is 100% correct in there own reality... but in the reality that includes everyone this isn't so. My point is still, what does that say about personal personal truths?


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547814 - 04/11/04 02:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, do some people ever seem to enjoy ripping apart peoples posts.. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree pointing out a few holes in ones claims seems somewhat necessary at times, but I mean, know when to quit.. He had an interesting personal experience, and he shared it with us.  Why would anyone feel the need to question his experience so heavily?  Sure it may or may not have been a genuine premonition..you may or may not agree with his thoughts regarding the experience..but in either case, what kind of an explanation are you looking for anyway?

These kinds of experiences are obviously a subjective thing, and usually seem to be far from easy to put into words.  Genuine or not, it was his experience, and even  if it was successfully described without any 'holes' to attack, I'm not sure anyone who didn't have the experience for themselves would truly be capable of understanding exactly how he felt when it actually happened.  If he felt his experience was significant..then it was.  For him.  Why demand an explanation?

Sorry, I've just been noticing alot of seemingly unnecessary dissecting and criticizing of posts lately..moreso than usual.  I'd agree, alot of the time they do have their place, but I mean..know when to draw the line.  :mushroom2:


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OfflineDNICEONER
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2547819 - 04/11/04 02:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone ever seen the film Waking Life......Its sick


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Only for those who know what they are talking about


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547821 - 04/11/04 02:44 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

A counselor once told me that the dreams we have, although seemingly randomly made up of people and things, contain the people and things that our minds put there, due to past, present and future experiences.

She said that in order to find out what your dream was about, you have to question each thing in your dream and ask what it is doing there. You will have the answer because you put the person or thing in your dream in the first place. You have to "be" the person or thing, and then answer your own questions.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Frog]
    #2547908 - 04/11/04 03:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, that does seem to make alot of sense..that is if dreams are infact all you.. :smile:

I guess one might say a dream could be some kind of presentation of a series of analogical metaphors..based on the present arrangement of the individuals past, present and (future?) cognitions..

Although if this is true..what about lucid dreaming?  This would seem to disrupt what has been arranged for you inside an (organized?) dream..allowing you change its course..to interact with it on a different level.  Unless maybe going lucid was inevitable, and is actually a part of that dream..

Hmm..I do believe it's now time for some :stash: before I go :nut:


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: DNICEONER]
    #2547915 - 04/11/04 03:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DNICEONER said:
Has anyone ever seen the film Waking Life......Its sick




Indeed..that is one brilliant movie.    :thumbup: :thumbup:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547917 - 04/11/04 03:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Good point, ekomstop.  There must be different types of dreams.  I suppose the analyzation I am speaking of would apply to what I call "fake" dreams, or the dreams I have that won't come true. 

There are other dreams, wherein you dream of something that is going to happen in the future (which I call "real" dreams), and then of course lucid dreaming.  I suppose in those types of dreams, you wouldn't do the analysis that the counselor discussed.

I'll be there's a whole lot of research that can be done on this issue.  I am assigning the task to Skorpivo.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: Frog]
    #2547931 - 04/11/04 03:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I'll be there's a whole lot of research that can be done on this issue.  I am assigning the task to Skorpivo.  :grin:




Excellent.  I believe fireworks_god is expecting the results on his desk by tuesday morning for review.  :shocked:  :shocked:

:grin:


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547934 - 04/11/04 03:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>I mean..know when to draw the line.
-I think the argument might have ended sooner if he wasn't drinking and I wasn't sleep deprived.

I used to think that individual truths didn't harm anyone. After reading the about the crusades I started thinking that maybe it's not such a good idea to hold personal truths as absolute ones. If I see someone fusing illusion into reality and accepting it as truth, I'll try to plant a seed of doubt.

I don't encourage personal truths because it leads to a working fantasy. People stuck in this personal reality make decisions based on the fantasy world instead of the real world; these actions affect my life!

For all I know, next week 2Experimental could dream that I kill him. After a series of coincidences he concludes that his dreams are comming true and must now kill his imagined killer. This may seem like an extreme example (and a rip on an upcomming TV show) but it definantly has a point.

That being said, it was a free exchange of ideas and no one was physically harmed. I personally steered away from insults, and although the topic may have wandered it did stay within a general theme.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2547936 - 04/11/04 03:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Fireworks_god has some mighty high expectations.  :lol:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2547985 - 04/11/04 03:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I understand, man, and I agree.  Living in a fantasy is probably not the best way to live, especially when one is unaware of this.  Though I can't say I agree with your attacks on his grammar and spelling...heh..I'm definitely not anywhere near perfect in that respect, either.  Though posting on here seems like good practice :smile: 

As you said, he isn't hurting anyone with his beliefs..that is a pretty extreme scenario you described..I'm not sure it would really come down to something like that.. but who knows.  Delusion does seem like a serious issue..but I mean..What if his experiences were actually valid examples of precognition?  There doesn't seem to be any way to know for sure from our perspective..but personally I wouldn't automatically assume it is bogus..or genuine for that matter..either way, I can see where you're coming from.

I guess all I can do from this end is hope everyone here keeps a firm grasp on this reality if they do choose to explore these 'alternatives'..

I appologise for questioning your responses.  Attempting to sew a seed of doubt in someone who might need it definitely sounds like a good thing, however, if that person isn't willing to accept it...


Edited by ekomstop (04/11/04 04:11 AM)


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2548456 - 04/11/04 11:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the support : ) You make some points I think some people have yet to realize...


"Although if this is true..what about lucid dreaming? This would seem to disrupt what has been arranged for you inside an (organized?) dream..allowing you change its course..to interact with it on a different level. Unless maybe going lucid was inevitable, and is actually a part of that dream" .........I am not sure about lucid dreaming, as I have only had a few. I think lucid dreaming is a higher state of awareness, where ones mind breaks free of the hold they have to Earth, and realizes they are dreaming, yet still can maintian control and be relaxed... I find when I realize I am dreaming I almost always wake up from either fear/uncertainty/other factors, and very rarely do I remain lucid. I think lucid dreams offer a great possibility for self improvement if learned to be mastered. I also think they would be used for the wrong reasons, but who is to say what is wrong or right in the dream world.


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Anonymous

Re: Characters in dreams [Re: ekomstop]
    #2548597 - 04/11/04 12:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was talking to a lady about dreams. There is a man but I cant remember his name that came up with a theory that every thing in a dream ie. bushes, rhode blocks, people, cars, tables, lights, night, day and so on all have a meaning. A meditation of going back and recounting your steps of your dream in the morning and writting down every detail is a good idea. Then put your self in each objects shoe wether its living or inanimate. And ask your self Why am I here? What am I doing? What am I trying to say? What am I trying to show my self. When you do this for every thing in your dream.. You will have a deeper understanding about your phschy (sp?).


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