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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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The Founding Fathers were Libertarians
    #8337337 - 04/28/08 02:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

or the modern equivalent thereof. agree? disagree? discuss. i will post my thoughts in a bit.


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:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337342 - 04/28/08 02:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MistaUNGA said:
or the modern equivalent thereof.




What is the modern equivalent of a Libertarian? Or did you mean to say the contemporary equivalent thereof within their particular time period?


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #8337360 - 04/28/08 02:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, that's the one.


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Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337588 - 04/28/08 03:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The Founding Fathers were classical liberals and physiocrats.


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337604 - 04/28/08 03:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i think it's kind of obvious, but anyway, the reason i say that is this: the Constitution. plain and simple.

any strict adherence to the Constitution imo is a libertarian ideal (or very close to it).

examples: the Constitution is clearly written so as to limit the size of the federal government, and leave power with the states that is not expressly granted in the Constitution.

it clearly states that there ought to be no central bank, and that silver and gold ought to be only legal tender as to combat counterfeiting. the Fed is the antithesis of this.

many other sources of information about them, including works published etc, also show their feelings toward personal civil liberties, limited government size, free market economics, and many of the other planks of the modern libertarian platform.

so my question is this: how did we stray so far into this mess we've got today?

liberals.

liberals were the ones who applied "loose-construction". they're the ones that said art1sec10 gave the fed govt basically any power it needed because it was deemed "necessary and proper". that's bullshit. if we had stuck to the Constitution as it is written, and let individual states decide non-federal matters, for example drug laws, there would be a lot less problems in this country.

thanks for fucking up our country, damn libs.

thoughs? reactions?

and on a side note, if you agree with any sort of socialist/communist ideals, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG COUNTRY. this country was founded on CIVIL LIBERTY and FREE MARKET ECONOMICS. if you want free medicine, enjoy waiting in line in canada. meanwhile, i'll gladly get the care i need by paying for it because it is superior.

and one more thing, i am starting to wonder what this country would be like if the Confederate States of America had won the civil war (or countries). afterall, the reason they seceded was not due to slavery (which would have been shortly abolished in the south anyway), but for economic and other reasons. many felt the federal government did not have a place to tell the states how to run their governments.

neighbors know how best to take care of neighbors. the very essence of freedom is in local government participation. when we have a centralized power (which was greatly feared by the FF), we get bullshit like we're seeing today.

/rant


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Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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OfflineAScannerDarkly
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337630 - 04/28/08 03:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MistaUNGA said:
or the modern equivalent thereof. agree? disagree? discuss. i will post my thoughts in a bit.




Sure.
And England's founding father was a tyrant.
What's your point?


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[quote]Voido said:
[quote]drken said:
Dont get me wrong he is a funny guy, just not a great actor. Smoke some bud and watch the movie, weed helps me pick out shitty acting. [/quote]

no your just stoned. stop smoking pot [/quote]


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OfflineAScannerDarkly
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337663 - 04/28/08 03:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MistaUNGA said:

and one more thing, i am starting to wonder what this country would be like if the Confederate States of America had won the civil war (or countries). afterall, the reason they seceded was not due to slavery (which would have been shortly abolished in the south anyway), but for economic and other reasons. many felt the federal government did not have a place to tell the states how to run their governments.






They never would have. They didn't have any industry to support them (remember, if the CSA won it doesn't mean it would have taken over the north).
Nothing at all could be done against the blockade, and even if northern armies were defeated there would be loads of foreign aid because the Europeans really wanted the USA back in control of cotton production.

But if somehow they had one, there probably would have been another war where they definitely would have lost, unless they somehow got foreign aid from Mexico or something (not too unlikely, the natives loved the confederacy).


--------------------
[quote]Voido said:
[quote]drken said:
Dont get me wrong he is a funny guy, just not a great actor. Smoke some bud and watch the movie, weed helps me pick out shitty acting. [/quote]

no your just stoned. stop smoking pot [/quote]


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The Founding Fathers were Libertarians [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #8337799 - 04/28/08 04:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

it clearly states that there ought to be no central bank, and that silver and gold ought to be only legal tender as to combat counterfeiting.




The First Bank of the United States was created four years after the constitution was drafted by the first Secretary of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton. Fiat currency was used by the United States government before the introduction of specie currency, so I don't know why you think the Founding Fathers advocated bimetallism.

Quote:

so my question is this: how did we stray so far into this mess we've got today?

liberals.

liberals were the ones who applied "loose-construction". they're the ones that said art1sec10 gave the fed govt basically any power it needed because it was deemed "necessary and proper". that's bullshit. if we had stuck to the Constitution as it is written, and let individual states decide non-federal matters, for example drug laws, there would be a lot less problems in this country.




New Deal Liberals certainly expanded the central government, but this is nothing new. Federalists, National Republicans, and Whigs all did the same.


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