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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now.
    #8148378 -

This is going to be long, sorry...

My boyfriend and I are having pretty serious problems right now and it's really stressing me out. I'm considering breaking up with him, but I don't want to because I truly believe that we are capable of making it better and I love him (and he claims to love me). After fighting unsuccessfully tonight, I finally just wrote him a letter after he went to bed. I've posted it below, but first a little back story: he's really good friends with his ex, which makes me kind of uncomfortable (but I can't tell him who to be friends with, and it's not like he sees her very often anyways, so I try to leave that one alone usually). However, she called him in tears at about 4:30am a couple of nights ago, and they talked for about 45 minutes, and his side of the conversation was peppered with things like "aww [her name]...", "I love you too", "you're amazing" etc. I wasn't particularly happy about this, and he basically called me an insensitive jerk for objecting to that. Apparently the situation is she's a coke addict, terribly insecure, and her coke addict boyfriend just dumped her. Now I feel sorry for her--I would for anyone in that situation--but I don't think it's reasonable for my sleep to be interrupted because she decided that getting drunk and high and calling her friend at 4:30am was a good idea.

Another major point of contention between us is that I was unemployed and he helped me out financially throughout January and part of February of this year (I'm in the process of paying him back, since I have a new job now, and I give every cent that I don't need for essentials to him) but he brings it up every time we argue, even if it's totally unrelated, because he knows I feel terribly guilty about it.

He claims that he will do anything, change anything, whatever it takes to make things better, but he doesn't seem to be putting in much effort. When we argue, he either explodes at me irrationally, shuts down, or says something to the effect of "oh babe, I'm sorry, let's just snuggle now". None of these are techniques that I find particularly conducive to solving problems, so the way we argue is probably our biggest problem. I suggested therapy, but he thinks it's a dumb idea. I think he'd go if I arranged it and paid for it, but that's my last resort.



Dear [my boyfriend's name],

I think I've had enough. I'm sick of feeling like your lowest priority. You put hardly any effort into our relationship, and you don't care about my happiness. I'm miserable being with you, and you don't care enough to fix it. That alone is enough to make me not want to be with you, but I guess I'm kind of stupid, because I still love you. I can't keep living like this though.

You have until March 22 (one week from today) to make some major changes. If you do not make some serious changes in the way you treat me, I will be moving out at the end of the month. These changes must include: paying attention to me when I speak (includes not interrupting me constantly); looking at me and listening to me when I speak; not bringing up the past to hurt me (this mostly refers to my period of unemployment at the beginning of this year); as well as making sure that I am your number one priority (second to yourself only) and treating me as such.

Since you have lied to me many times about this, I no longer believe you when you just promise to change. I require an actual plan from you. Apparently asking you to think of a plan on the spot (even with my help) is too much to ask, so I ask that you spend some time today (March 15th) thinking of ways that you can improve your behavior, and writing some ideas down. You may use the bottom of this document to respond to me with some of your suggestions.

Although I have spoken to you about most (perhaps all) of my serious concerns, I don't get the impression that you have listened to me carefully, nor do I feel that you completely understand me. So I will detail here the problems that I believe we are having:

1. I feel that you love/care about/trust your ex more than me. Having discussed this with a number of people, I've come to the conclusion that your behavior with regards to her and me is hurtful and unfair. I have no problem with you being friends with anyone you choose, however, I do not find it acceptable for you to give anyone else a higher priority than me in your life. I am your girlfriend right now, and I hope to be for a long time. I am your present, and hopefully your future, too. With that in mind, I do not find it acceptable for you to be so intimate with anyone else, particularly not another girl who is not in your family. You compared your relationship with her to my relationship with [my best friend], but I don't see that comparison. First, although I do love [my best friend] as a friend, I do not feel the need to tell her that. I may have, once or twice, but it isn't something I've ever said at the end of a conversation on the phone, nor is it something I say on a regular basis.

The bottom line is, it just doesn't feel natural for me to say "I love you"/"I love you too" to a friend--I save that phrase for people I am actually IN love with (and sometimes my family), and I believe that is the case for most people. To hear you tell her that you love her really hurts my feelings. TURNIP, babe, turnip.

2. Well actually, point #1 is really the big one. But my other major concern is the way you ignore me. When I come home, I don't expect you to act like the dogs do--jumping all over me and almost pissing themselves with excitement. I don't require that level of enthusiasm from you, and it would be kind of weird if you were that excited to see me. However, there needs to be some middle ground between that and the way you greet me now (generally by glancing up from your video game without bothering to pause it and saying "hi babe"). Even if you could just pause your game for long enough to make eye contact with me and ask me about my day, that would be great. Standing up and hugging me would be a bonus, too.

I also don't feel like we spend any quality time together. Yes, we spend lots of time together by virtue of the fact that we live together, but sleeping in the same bed, or sitting in the same room while you play video games and I mess around on the computer does not count as quality time spent together. I realize that we can't afford to go out to movies/restaurants/bars/concerts every day, but you don't seem to understand that there are things we can do that aren't expensive and don't include watching TV. And we don't need to be spending 12 hours of intense quality time together every day--you can go out and do your own thing, and we can sit and stare at our respective screens, but we need to do more than that sometimes.

3. We don't have sex. Ever. And while you apparently don't have any sexual needs, rest assured that does not hold true for me. You claim that you don't mind having sex (and you actually really enjoy it) but it doesn't "occur" to you--you never think about it. If you haven't noticed already, that's not okay. I need for you to put an effort into our sex life, because it's been about a month and I'm getting just the slightest bit bored with self stimulation.

So basically, I think you need to make some changes here. If not, then we need to see a therapist, and then we need to make this situation better or break up. And of course, like I always say, I would love to hear your side of this--if there are things that I do (or don't do) that bother you, then please tell me so that I can make it better. I'll never be a better girlfriend if I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I want to make you happy, so please give me your perspective on this. If you're not comfortable with talking to me in person about it, you can write me a note like I did.

Love,

[my name]





So what the hell am I supposed to do here? Am I being a psycho cunt or what? He claims he loves me and wants to be with me forever, we've even had the "will you change your name when we get married" conversation and all that, but he just seems to care so little about me right now.

After writing all this down I think that most people's instinct would be to say DTMFA, but I don't want to give up--I think we could potentially be happy together again, and I believe that he genuinely wants to make things better. He says that the only reason he hasn't already is because he doesn't know how.


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"The important thing to remember: if we ship all our fat-bottomed girls off to foreign countries, the terrorists win."

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8148394 -

It does sound like you're overreacting to the whole loving his best friend thing. What's wrong with loving a friend? Unless you suspect he's cheating on you. Do you fear that his sexual drive is being drained by this coked up ex? Does he ask you about your day at some point during the night? As for doing something besides staring at your respective screens, have you suggested anything, or are you expecting him to be the catalyst for change?

I don't know, I'm not very good at the whole people thing. I'll mull over this and come back.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8148396 -

Eh, from your side of the tale i wouldn't say your nuts.

While not everyone is perfect, it sounds rather one sided and of convenience. While I must admit a good game can be rather distracting, I can't justify the lack of saying hello. In my own life, even when I'm in the middle of killing my buddies online I can at least pay enough attention to say hi, and take a break during the next intermission.

I'd prolly say he's just to young and immature, and your wasting your time unless you want to wait around and be treated like a pet.

My random 1/4 cent.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: wolfiexiii]
    #8148408 -

Like Cameron said, unless you think theres a possibility he might be cheating on you, you're definitely making too big of a deal of the ex gf thing.  Your other expectations seem normal and understandable as your story makes it sound like he almost shuts you off entirely most of the time.  After he reads this, talk to him again and stress how much you want to work things out, rather than giving him an ultimatum for change.  Goodluck with all of this, I hope it works out for you :smile:

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: Helixx]
    #8149069 -

I don't doubt him ignoring you and perhaps a couple communication problems may be problems that are bothering you, but I don't think that this is about that at all.

I think all of this really boils down to the relationship he is still having with his ex. Considering what he actually said to his ex on the phone the other night, I would say you are really lucky to actually find a man who is that caring and considerate of others. No doubt he still probably has feelings for his ex, but most people would. You are currently the one that he truly loves which is why he is with you.

haha, and considering that the guy is using snuggling as a problem solving technique and plays video games, he doesn't sound like an asshole by any stretch. I would just try to patch things up between you guys.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: appleorange]
    #8150040 -

appleorange said:
I don't doubt him ignoring you and perhaps a couple communication problems may be problems that are bothering you, but I don't think that this is about that at all.

I think all of this really boils down to the relationship he is still having with his ex. Considering what he actually said to his ex on the phone the other night, I would say you are really lucky to actually find a man who is that caring and considerate of others. No doubt he still probably has feelings for his ex, but most people would. You are currently the one that he truly loves which is why he is with you.

haha, and considering that the guy is using snuggling as a problem solving technique and plays video games, he doesn't sound like an asshole by any stretch. I would just try to patch things up between you guys.



pretty much what i was going to say.

mayfly, dont worry about the ex, if he wanted to be with her, he would be, and he wouldnt openly talk to her and about her around you, he would hide you.

but it does sound like you both need to try a little more. :thumbup:


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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8151421 -

Well no sex for a month is what stuck out for me.
-If I was the guy or girl in that situation I would, honestly bail.

And in your note you are giving him a ultimatum to change.
-You shouldnt try to change people, from my experience.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #8151612 -

I don't think you're making a big deal of the ex thing at all. There are certain circumstances where ex's can be friends, and call me insecure, but if my girlfriend hung out with an ex alone, and said she loved him, I would be fucking mortified.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: xFrockx]
    #8152338 -

in my experience
3 things that can ruin relationships unless they are thing you enjoy together are
1 drugs/alcohol
2 videogames/computer time
3 porn

just my 2 cents. it may not apply to your situation, but it sounds like to me you just need to find some common intrests to enjoy together

also i woulnt worry to much about his ex unless you suspect he may be cheating on you. it seems unusual that a young man wouldnt be interested in sex (i assume you are a young couple)


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Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?
o Henry Ford

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8153256 -

I'm with GGreatOne on this one.

No sex for over a month is also the biggest thing that stuck out to me. Is this guy 70 or what? I know when I'm in a relationship..especially if you claim to love the person.. I aim for sex every day... twice or three times a day if possible. If I went a week without... while living with someone.. not counting extenuating circumstances.. I would seriously begin to question that relationship. A month?.... And she's not in the hospital or on the other side of the world?... See ya. It was nice while it lasted.
Not to mention, a young male without any sort of libido raises big questions in my head.
A good sex life... while not the be-all and end-all... is a vital component of any healthy relationship, in my humble opinion. You can have all the trust, respect, communication and mutual interests in the world.. but without any kind of satisfying sex life.. that's just not any kind of real intimate relationship that's gonna go anywhere. Again, my opinion.. albeit a -very- strong one.

As for the ex thing. I'd probably be concerned too if I was in the same position. That wouldn't just roll off my back. It's one thing to maintain a platonic friendship with an ex while in a relationship with someone else. It's quite another to have someone on the backburner while you have semi-intimate conversations with them and/or visit them and 'hang out' regularly or whatever. That would just straight up piss me off. An ex pulled that on me, but I didn't respond to it very well.

Ultimatums don't work. People only change if they really want to, for themselves. Trying to change people just leads to struggles, most of which are futile and end badly.

Ultimately it's your call. You've expressed your side to him so it's up to him to communicate back and see if you guys can work it out. I can't say whether or not you're being a psycho cunt because I haven't heard his side of the story. But just try to work with him and if it's not gonna work just do what's gonna make you happy. Because in the end it's all about your personal happiness and if you're unhappy in a relationship with someone, fuck that relationship, time to move on.. better to be alone and happy then in a relationship and unhappy. Relationships are supposed to be about building each other up, not taking each other down.


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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: Shroomism]
    #8153552 -

Yeah, send this guy packin'.

Any man who can go a whole month without wanting to have sex with you is obviously fucked up in the head.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: adrug]
    #8153720 -

Either that, or getting it somewhere else.


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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: Shroomism]
    #8153783 -

Werd.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: adrug]
    #8155685 -

Im responding on this post from the position of your boyfriend. I am actually currently in a position which my girlfriend has a lot of the same problems with me that you have with your boyfriend. First and foremost giving a date on which he has to change by is not a good thing. This guy sounds a lot like me and from my experiences if i feel that i am forced to do something or given ultimatums i usually recede and do nothing productive towards the situation. On the ex girlfriend issue, again i can relate. I agree that it probably isnt healthy for him to be telling his ex girlfriend he loves her. But again coming from having very similar arguments with my girlfriend, if he were cheating on you or had anything to hide about this situation you wouldnt know that he still talks to her. It would be hidden. The only aspect i cant justify for this man is the fact that he holds the financial situation over your head... that is not a fair thing to do. I dont know how to tell you to fix this situation b/c i cant seem to fix my own, but i can say that fighting is no way to get it done. One thing to remember is that its not always what you say but how you say it so if you keep pounding things into his head the same way youre going to get nowhere. I think the letter is a good idea its easier to say things that you need to say in a less personable form. Face to face confrontations make me feel awkward and at a loss for words. On to the sex. Unless this guy is gay he wants to have sex with you, you can take that to the bank. A lot of the times with my girlfriend, i dont know if shes in the mood or even in the mood to be gotten into the mood (if that makes sense). Im not gonna throw my girlfriend up against a wall and have sex with her if she doesnt want to. Maybe try throwing some hints. It also sounds like he has some pent up frustration towards you. Like maybe there are things you do that he doesnt like so he does things that he knows you dont like. You make him feel bad he makes you feel bad (for some reason things have to be "fair"). When it comes down to it, this guy isnt going to change b/c you want him to. The only way people can change is if they truly want to so trying to force him is pointless. It will just cause you furthur frustration. But if he does make the decision to try and change things he will need some support, and that is where you can probably help the most. Hope this helps a little bit.


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Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8156385 -

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Taking phone calls from the ex at 4:30am is unacceptable in my opinion. He's disrespecting you just so he can play his role of savior to his ex.

But consider this: you've listed what you need from him (and what you aren't getting from him.) Could you make a similar list of what he needs from you? Do you know what would be on that list? Does he get those things from you? Are you sure?

Instead of giving him the angry manifesto you wrote, approach him by asking him what he honestly wants out of this relationship, what he needs from you. Assure him you just need to know. Approach him with love, not anger. Resist any temptation to accuse him of anything. Don't get into an argument. He might get defensive, just let him speak; don't dispute what he says.

Then tell him what you need. Focus on providing what he is looking for rather than worry about getting what you want. If he senses you are tending to his needs, he will reciprocate. If he doesn't, then he wants something you can't give him and you should move on.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8158265 -

***harsh language follows***



Quote:
You have until March 22 (one week from today) to make some major changes. If you do not make some serious changes in the way you treat me, I will be moving out at the end of the month. These changes must include: paying attention to me when I speak (includes not interrupting me constantly); looking at me and listening to me when I speak; not bringing up the past to hurt me (this mostly refers to my period of unemployment at the beginning of this year); as well as making sure that I am your number one priority (second to yourself only) and treating me as such.




An ultimatum?

Fuck you.


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #8158297 -

From my painful, personal experience: if you feel the need to make an ultimatum, the relationship is over. Walk away, spend some years alone working on your ability to be happy without a partner, and count yourself lucky to have left before marriage and children complicated the situation.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8162503 -

WhiskeyClone said:
I don't think you're being unreasonable. Taking phone calls from the ex at 4:30am is unacceptable in my opinion. He's disrespecting you just so he can play his role of savior to his ex.



Damn straight.

Leave him.

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8163405 -

After reading all of these responses yesterday I felt a little better and I thought I had a better way of approaching the problems we're having, but his ex called AGAIN last night. Four times. Between 4 and 5 am. Since I had to work early this morning and I've been feeling a little run down lately it was the LAST thing I needed, but my boyfriend was sleeping really deeply so he didn't hear the phone ring or me trying to wake him. Consequently, I got a terrible sleep--not his fault (he didn't tell her to call)--but inconsiderate of her, and annoying of him not to discourage it.

I don't want to make a huge long post full of quotes, so I'm just going to say whose post each response is directed towards. Not that it'll be much shorter...:lol:


Re Cameron and Helixx: I think you're right, I may be overreacting to the ex thing. I'm 99.9% sure he isn't cheating on me, and even if he was it wouldn't be with her, since she lives in another province and rarely visits. I guess it's more something I can point at and say "there, that's the problem" than it actually is a serious problem. From all accounts she's really quite nice and not IN love with him anymore, so logically I probably don't have anything to worry about, but try telling that to my brain. :rolleyes:


Re appleorange, leftysurprise, and xFrockx: He's definitely not an asshole by nature, and that's why I'm finding this so confusing. I don't know if my tolerance has gone down or if he's starting to ignore problems more (or a bit of both) but I just don't feel like he's listening to me. It's odd because when I'm upset with him he feels terrible and he claims to want to make it better, but if I ask him HOW he plans to make it better or suggest ways he could make it better he just shrugs and does nothing.

He did used to hide the fact that he talked to his ex, but when I explained that I'd rather have him be honest (even if it made me feel a little jealous) than feel that he's hiding something from me, he stopped hiding it.

I think it may just be that I'm too insecure, and that's why the thing with his ex upsets me so much. I'm glad he's such a caring guy, but it just feels like that care is directed more towards his ex than to me. Granted, when I have a bad day it's usually something like "my boss yelled at me and then I missed the bus home, boo hoo" whereas her bad day last week was more like "my coke addict boyfriend just dumped me and now I'm addicted to coke and super depressed" which is definitely a more serious problem.:lol:


Re GGreatOne234, Shroomism and adrug:
Yeah, the lack of sex is definitely peculiar. He's only 23! A couple of months after we started dating we discussed our sex life and he kept apologizing, saying that he was so sorry he was so bad, that he could only go twice a day, etc etc. Apparently when he was 17 he couldn't handle LESS than 5 times EVERY DAY with his girlfriend at the time (who just so happens to be the same ex I've got my panties in a bunch over) whereas now once in two months seems to be too much to ask. He claims it's not about me--he's attracted to me and he enjoys having sex with me. I think if that's the case there might be some sort of medical reason, but he refuses to go to a doctor about it.:shrug: So I don't know how to fix that one.

Quote:
You can have all the trust, respect, communication and mutual interests in the world.. but without any kind of satisfying sex life.. that's just not any kind of real intimate relationship that's gonna go anywhere.



I absolutely agree. It sometimes feels like we're just friends who happen to be roommates, which is nice and all, but not what I'm really interested in here.


Re Invisibletrscstghst:
I absolutely agree with you about those three things. I think we've done pretty well with them mostly--he got me into video games and porn, and we both enjoy drugs/alcohol in moderation, but it's more the separate time we spend doing these things that's the problem. I don't mind if he gets really wrapped up in a video game (since I do that too sometimes), but he seems to get more into it than I do.


Re mycould: Thanks for giving me (what seems to be) a similar perspective on this to my boyfriend's. I think I might be too aggressive sometimes in trying to address problems, and that is probably contributing to him shutting down and ignoring them. I prefer to address problems directly and impersonally, and I like to discuss things until they're settled and there is no question as to what is going to change to fix the problem. For example, if I was mad at him for, say, not doing his share of housework, I would say "I'm doing more than my fair share of the housework lately, can you help me out a bit? There's a whole bunch of dishes and laundry piling up." Sometimes it seems like he takes statements like this as a personal attack, and I'm not really sure how I can be nicer about it, while still getting my message across. I can't stand "hinting" at things. "Gee, this floor sure is cluttered..."

I've tried to be pretty clear about when I want sex, but lately I've gotten so tired of being rejected that I don't even bother. I suggested that if he really doesn't want it I can go elsewhere for just sex (which isn't something I really want to do, but it might help) but he said that would hurt his feelings and he would try harder.


Re WhiskeyClone: I don't think I could make as detailed a list of what he wants/needs from me (and is and isn't getting) as I could for myself. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of things that I'm doing/not doing that he doesn't like, but if I ask him he just says I'm perfect and he loves me. Which is great and all, but I'm sure there's SOMETHING I can do better. I have tried asking him in a non-aggressive, loving way what he wants out of our relationship, but he just gives his default response (shrugs and says "I dunno" or something like that). If there's anything I can do to make him happier, I would do it in a heartbeat, and I've told him that many times. I agree that if I was meeting his needs he would probably be more open to meeting mine, but I feel like he's scared to tell me what he needs.


Re Penguarky Tunguin and Veritas: Thanks for your honesty. You're right, ultimatums are not the way to go about these things. I was extremely angry when I wrote my letter, and I regret including that part. However, the fact that I did include it doesn't bode well for us patching things up... So I guess I've got some thinking to do. Veritas, I hope you're not right, but I fear you are.


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"The important thing to remember: if we ship all our fat-bottomed girls off to foreign countries, the terrorists win."

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Re: I'm having major problems with my boyfriend right now. [Re: mayfly]
    #10998254 -

What happened?


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