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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Schizophrenia * 1
    #8106318 - 03/05/08 02:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You already started a thread on this.

No, I didn't.

Yes, you did.

Did not.

Oh, be quiet.

No, YOU shut up!

Now, you are making us look bad.


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #8106339 - 03/05/08 02:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, everybody calm down.

What were we talking about again?

I don't know.

:tinfoil:






:runaway:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #8106356 - 03/05/08 02:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think you have a poor understanding of schizophrenia.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: MushmanTheManic] * 1
    #8106382 - 03/05/08 02:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

He is probably right.

No, he isn't.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #8106707 - 03/05/08 03:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What a FUCKING JOKE
Schizophrenia as stargate
I wish you the best when your shit collapses


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8106753 - 03/05/08 04:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #8106963 - 03/05/08 04:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

An Interview With Dr. John Weir Perry - Michael O'Callaghan

MICHAEL O'CALLAGHAN: How does one define so-called schizophrenia?

JOHN WEIR PERRY: Jung defined it most succinctly. He said...

"Schizophrenia is a condition in which the dream takes the place of reality." This means that the unconscious overwhelms the ego-consciousness, overwhelms the field of awareness with contents from the deepest unconscious, which take mythic, symbolic form. And the emotions, unless they're hidden, are quite mythic too. To a careful observer, they're quite appropriate to the situation at hand.

The way "schizophrenia" unfolds is that, in a situation of personal crisis, all the psyche's energy is sucked back out of the personal, conscious area, into what we call the archetypal area. Mythic contents thus emerge from the deepest level of the psyche, in order to re-organise the Self. In so doing, the person feels himself withdrawing from the ordinary surroundings, and becomes quite isolated in this dream state.


O'C: Did Jung really see this as a healing process?

PERRY: He did indeed! He believed that "schizophrenia" is a self-healing process - one in which, specifically, the pathological complexes dissolve themselves. The whole schizophrenic turmoil is really a self-organising, healing experience. It's like a molten state. Everything seems to be made of free energy, an inner free play of imagery through which the alienated psyche spontaneously re-organises itself - in such a way that the conscious ego is brought back into communication with the unconscious again.

http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/mental-breakdown-as-healing.html

In the interest of personal progress one might bring on this subjective catastrophe willingly when possible outcomes are weighed. In for a challenge??


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8107220 - 03/05/08 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

More recent investigations, such as Laing (1965,1967) and Bateson (1961), have been criticized for excessively metaphorical portrayals of the schizophrenic experience. These criticisms are usually directed against proselytizing for schizophrenia, that is, against viewing it as a "desirable" experience similar to the psychedelic experience.

In a work entitled "Towards a Theory of Schizophrenia", an earlier work than the one cited in the above passage, Bateson, et. al. introduce the notion of a 'double bind situation' hypothesizing "that a person caught in the double bind may develop schizophrenic symptoms." The schizophrenic is compared with the Zen pupil:
We feel that the schizophrenic finds himself continually in the same situation as the pupil, but he achieves something like disorientation rather than enlightenment. 56

http://www.mentalstates.net/part3.html

Double bind is a communicative situation where a person receives different or contradictory messages. The term, coined by the anthropologist Gregory Bateson and his colleagues (including Don D. Jackson, Jay Haley and John H. Weakland), attempts to account for the onset of schizophrenia without simply assuming an organic brain dysfunction.[1][2] Today it is more importantly understood as an example of Bateson's approach to the complexities of communication.

The phenomenon itself was functionally observed in its negative sense, and utilised in a therapeutic context, by Milton H. Erickson. The double bind is based on paradox turned to contradiction.

Usage in Zen Buddhism

According to philosopher and theologian Alan Watts, the double bind has long been used in Zen Buddhism as a therapeutic tool. The Zen Master purposefully imposes the double bind upon his students (through various "skillful means," called upaya) in hopes that they achieve enlightenment (satori). One of the most prominent techniques used by Zen Masters (especially those of the Rinzai school) is called the koan, in which the master gives his or her students a question and instructs them to pour all their mental energies into finding the answer to it. As an example of a koan, a student can be asked to present to the master their genuine self, "Show me who you really are." According to Watts, the student will eventually realize that there's nothing they can do, and also nothing they can not do, to present their true self, and thus they truly learn the Buddhist concept of anatman (non-self) via reductio ad absurdum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

Two planes fly into buildings.
The official story goes like this.:thumbdown:
Another story proposed as its alternative.:thumbup:
Collectively bound in the bind just in time, imo.:yinyang:


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OfflineLion
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8108194 - 03/05/08 08:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Good shit!


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: Lion] * 1
    #8108497 - 03/05/08 09:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I really hate the idea of chemically inducing Orgone's opposites to drown his subjective existence in his own mental refuse.:uptosomething:
Shadow??

Might the objective world with these lunatics at the wheel afford us this pleasure without the aide of a powerful psychedelic or entheogen??



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Edited by backfromthedead (03/05/08 10:21 PM)

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8109119 - 03/05/08 11:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To produce a schizophrenic break you need to collapse the ego, preferably as rapidly as possible. There are different ways of defining the ego but I define it thusly: The ego is a structure of the personality that is made up of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world around us, and our place in it. We form these beliefs as based on our relationships, our experiences, the roles we play and the activities we engage in. All of these combined, create our ego -- which is, for most of us, our sense of who we are. I prefer to think of the ego in this regard as the little self.

When the ego collapses, fragments, or disintegrates, shadow and archetypal contents flood in from the personal and collective unconscious. Those are Jungian terms and I use them because it's the best model I've found thus far for explaining this experience to others. During psychosis, what is experienced and what is seen by the people around you, are fragments of the collapsed ego (one's shattered sense of self), shadow material (which produces fear, terror, paranoia, shame, etc.), and archetypal material, such as the sense that one is Jesus Christ, or Buddha, or God... or has just seen one of those figures get into a cab on 49th street.

Yet, each of those religious icons are also symbols of center which is where the larger Self resides. If you make it all the way through the unconscious to the center -- for a little while at least -- you don't just play God, you are God, because there is nothing left at that point to separate the I-from-The-Thou. Within an Eastern framework, this might be called Self-realization or God-realization. In the West, it's called delusions of grandeur.

There are a number of spiritual traditions that work to slowly polish these layers of selfhood away so as to come into contact with the pure source of the Absolute; meditation in the Buddhist tradition or contemplation in the Christian mysteries are two such examples. There are also various drugs that temporarily displace the ego allowing the numinous to shine in -- the use of peyote among Native Americans; LSD among university professors; ayahuasca among shamans of the Amazon. In addition, there are ritual activities one can engage in: kundalini yoga, drumming, chanting, sacred forms of dance, tantric love-making or creating a work of art. Note that none of these activities produce neurological dysfunction, they simply remove the ego -- one's sense of the little self -- from the larger equation.

Falling in love can displace the ego. Losing someone you love can displace the ego. Shock and trauma can displace the ego. Retiring, or losing a job or role you had strongly invested yourself in can displace the ego. All of us have likely had these kind of experiences and we're familiar with the feeling that life feels a bit shaky for a while afterwards. We don't quite know how to be who we believed we were if we're no longer "Joe's wife" or "Director of Internal Affairs" or "Mary's best friend". If we thought of those people, roles, belongings as positive (i.e., we were attached), we experience their departure as losses. We may need to replace them in some form; a new spouse, new friend, or new job, before stability returns and we are back to being "ourselves" once more.

In a matter of months I lost my self-identity as a daughter, my self-identity as a mother, my self-identity as a wife, my self-identity as a worker, and I also lost my community and my two best friends -- external forms of support that otherwise could have helped provide some structure in the midst of those losses. In addition, trauma was interwoven through those events: trauma from my past, trauma in my present, and a trauma that came to be in which many people died and I felt responsible in some twisted way for their deaths. I wasn't, but something doesn't have to be true to believe that it's true.

You cannot try this at home because you require the co-operation of the entire Universe which strips you of most everything that you have loved or believed in, in one relentless blow after another with hardly any time in between to catch your breath, until you really and truly, absolutely cannot stand anymore. This is how you produce rapid ego collapse, which in turn, produces an acute schizophrenic break -- no faulty neurological wiring required.

Schizophrenia: The Shaman Sickness
The path is always lonely and demanding for those called to shamanism, and doubly so for those who must contend with Western culture's refusal to accept the overwhelming reality of the disturbing realms of vision and torment in which these potential shamans dwell. Along with having to endure the loss of ego stability, hence the frightening blurring of outer and inner realites, sufferers of schizophrenia are often forced to contend with psychiatric notions, ruled by the Apollonian myth of reason, monotheism and normality, which demand that such "deviant" Dionysian states be subdued with medication, or punished with incarceration in mental institutions.

The schizophrenic's reason and senses, like those of the shaman during initiation, are assaulted by concrete revelations of the heights and depths of the vast Otherworlds of the collective unconscious. Simultaneously, the schizophrenic is forced to slot into the sometimes petty humdrum and routine of daily existence. The invasion of the ego by archetypal forces transforms the individual profoundly and irreversibly; no-one who has endured such a crisis can confine the expanded horizons of their consciousness to the tame boundaries of cultural norms. Yet instead of encouraging and bolstering the development of such transcendental levels of awareness, mainstream psychiatry seeks - out of fear of the unknown, the unconscious, the numinous, the irrational and the abnormal - to stifle it under the euphemistic and patronising guise of 'treatment'.

The schizophrenic, being intensely introverted is automatically poorly adapted in a society which narrowly defines personal identity in terms of appearance, behaviour and social status. S/he lives in a discontinuous reality which can become a terrifying bombardment of overlapping realities, voices and chaotic perceptions. Everything takes on mythical overtones. The players in the archetypal dramas are often gods who are potentially both benevolent and destructive. Mainstream psychiatry deals with this overload by numbing the mind and trying to force the individual to readjust to cultural norms. At the same time, the "patient" is robbed of a unique mode of learning that many schizophrenics sense to be immensely valuable and worth pursuing. And unfortunately the law is in the psychiatrists' hands to take away what others treasure as an experience of the awesome power of the sacred.

http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/shamanism-schizophrenia.html


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Offlineallisthesame
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8109292 - 03/06/08 12:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting thread.

Nothing much to say unfortunately other then that schizophrenia is in everyone and if you take that route well then good luck because in this world, if you're different, you're a crook or a witch or something to that effect... not just in western cultures too, but in eastern ones.

So all in all I think what I trying to say is props to two people in this thread and I hate you all equally.


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Guess what?; You...


A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8109330 - 03/06/08 12:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I find allot of what you said interesting but somethings i would disagree with. Psychiatrists don't numb your mind. Anti psychotic medication only reduces the excess firing of the neurons in your brain which causes these hallucinations, while on the medication you do not feel numb or stupid, you may feel a bit drowsy and there are some other bad side effects, so its not fun, but they don't numb your brain to make you into a robot again. Do you know what happened to schizophrenics before these medications became available? They were locked in horrible asylums, which were famous for all types of physical abuse. Where as now, with the help of medication schizophrenics can live much more fore filling lives.

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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8109847 - 03/06/08 05:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
In a matter of months I lost my self-identity as a daughter, my self-identity as a mother, my self-identity as a wife, my self-identity as a worker, and I also lost my community and my two best friends -- external forms of support that otherwise could have helped provide some structure in the midst of those losses. In addition, trauma was interwoven through those events: trauma from my past, trauma in my present, and a trauma that came to be in which many people died and I felt responsible in some twisted way for their deaths. I wasn't, but something doesn't have to be true to believe that it's true.


[/url]




I read all that you posted and the biggest thing that hit me was: you're a chick? The pic of the guy threw me. There was no footnote for this part so I thought it must be personal observation.

I lost the two people who raised me within a year of each other when I was only 22/23. It definitely shakes up the foundation of a person's life/ personal identity.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: mushbaby] * 1
    #8109981 - 03/06/08 06:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The mind races. Delusions take over. You "hear voices", hallucinate.

How do i know?

I've falling into a state of schizophrenia.


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Evolution of Time.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: mushbaby] * 1
    #8110140 - 03/06/08 08:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I took those quotes form the web pages listed.
I am definitely a dude.:thumbup:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8110219 - 03/06/08 09:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

'if you're different, you're a crook or a witch or something to that effect...'

Tell me about it. I spent 38 days of my life in a mental ward because the state took my rights away as they thought this was the best 'treatment' for my condition. Those helping haven't got a clue. Its like they want to punish you because they view drugs as bad and your drug induced spiritual progress is not acceptable. Haven't they read any of the research?? The history?? Perhaps I could have done a better job of keeping my head.

'Anti psychotic medication only reduces the excess firing of the neurons in your brain which causes these hallucinations, while on the medication you do not feel numb or stupid, you may feel a bit drowsy and there are some other bad side effects, so its not fun, but they don't numb your brain to make you into a robot again.'

I've been on Haldol, Depakote, Zyprexa, Risperdol, Geodon, Cogentin, Invega... All in the last three years.
All court ordered. I refuse to take anything because it numbs the experience that I am after for sure. Docs don't like this. Its impossible to work through the experience while on these medicines because the inner content is suppressed.
However, if the voices are a problem and you want them to just go away, this is an option.
Personally I would like to find out what they have to say and why.
After all its all me.
Off and on all this crap compounds the problem, imo.

I really feel that an advanced being could walk you right out of the woods with words.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #8110260 - 03/06/08 09:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Schizophrenia.



The person on this card brings a new twist to the old idea of 'getting stuck between a rock and a hard place'! But we are in precisely this sort of situation when we get stuck in the indecisive and dualistic aspect of the mind. Should I let my arms go and fall head-first, or let my legs go and fall feet-first? Should I go here or there? Should I say yes or no? And whatever decision we make, we will always wonder if we should have decided the other way . . . The only way out of this dilemma is, unfortunately, to let go of both at once. You can't work your way out of this one by solving it, making lists of pros and cons, or in any way working it out with your mind. Better to follow your heart, if you can find it. If you can't find it, just jump-- your heart will start beating so fast there will be no mistake about where it is!

:japsmile:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: AlteredAgain] * 1
    #8110305 - 03/06/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

'The only way out of this dilemma is, unfortunately, to let go of both at once.'

I'd have to advocate the exact opposite.
Why not track it all down and crack the whip.
Both always all the time.:yinyang:


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Edited by backfromthedead (03/06/08 09:54 AM)

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Schizophrenia [Re: backfromthedead] * 1
    #8110324 - 03/06/08 09:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No need to track it down. Just crack the whip. :smile:


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