Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD?
    #16250711 - 05/18/12 06:11 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I just completely randomly stumbled onto this article that said this:

"But get this. Forty-five percent of schizophrenics tested positive in one study for both T. gondii and D-lysergic acid diethylamide, better known as LSD. To quote a recent paper: "These results support the hypothesis that T. gondii may cause schizophrenia and may do so by producing or triggering the production of an hallucinogenic chemical" ("Genes, Germs, and Schizophrenia," Ledgerwood et al, Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, 2003). Mindful that rodents are often an intermediate host for the parasite, the authors go on to say, "Production of such a compound may have been favored by natural selection because an infected, hallucinating rodent would be more easily captured by a cat." In other words, schizophrenia in humans may be a side effect of T. gondii's attempt to set cats up with a steady supply of tripping mice, the better to ensure its own reproductive success. Told you this was bizarre."


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2637/if-cat-poop-is-so-toxic-to-pregnant-women-why-arent-there-more-birth-defects

What are the chances that of that?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePeterPanda209
Who has BitCoins?
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 6,016
Loc: •FrEsH CoAsT Flag
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16250728 - 05/18/12 06:17 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

What???? Hmmmmmm research time


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16250749 - 05/18/12 06:25 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

What are the chances that of that?

100%


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Icelander]
    #16250774 - 05/18/12 06:30 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I thought everyone knew about eating infected rats to trip ballz.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (05/18/12 06:50 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineFronnis
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16250799 - 05/18/12 06:36 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

And bufotenine, apparently.
Quote:

Urine bufotenine levels were significantly higher in ASD subjects (3.30 +/- 0.49 microg/L, p<0.05) and patients with schizophrenia (4.39 +/- 0.43 microg/L, p<0.001) compared with controls (1.53 +/- 0.30 microg/L). Among patients with ASD, there was a significant positive correlation between urine bufotenine and hyperactivity scores on the Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scale (r=0.479, p<0.05). No other associations were detected.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20150873


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16250805 - 05/18/12 06:37 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I ate one in my survival training and I'm still out in the desert out of my skull sitting at my computer posting at the shroomery what never existed on my home planet of Zardoz. :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDest
Roller-Derby Coach
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,444
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16250827 - 05/18/12 06:40 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Ok so this seems a little out there, never seen lsd being produced in nature.
However the first anti psychotics where developed specifically blocking the action of LSD.
I fond it interesting that these drugs have a broad range of physical side effects whereas pure LSD has practically zero.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Icelander]
    #16250852 - 05/18/12 06:52 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I ate one in my survival training and I'm still out in the desert out of my skull sitting at my computer posting at the shroomery what never existed on my home planet of Zardoz. :braindamage:






Seems a bit gay...


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16250934 - 05/18/12 07:13 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

but stoned nonetheless  :feelingfab:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleswimmingfast


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Icelander]
    #16250993 - 05/18/12 07:27 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Holy shit, this got me thinking.

What if governments conspire to produce some new type of drug that works long term which prevents the effects of psychedelics. Then the government unleashes it to the pubic for some crazy reason that all 'normal' folks believe.

It's my fictional tragedy scenario.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleHobozen
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Dest]
    #16251417 - 05/18/12 09:13 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dest said:
Ok so this seems a little out there, never seen lsd being produced in nature.
However the first anti psychotics where developed specifically blocking the action of LSD.
I fond it interesting that these drugs have a broad range of physical side effects whereas pure LSD has practically zero.




it's genetics

the witches of salem passed it down

lysergic bloodline brah


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: swimmingfast]
    #16251439 - 05/18/12 09:22 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

swimmingfast said:
Holy shit, this got me thinking.

What if governments conspire to produce some new type of drug that works long term which prevents the effects of psychedelics. Then the government unleashes it to the pubic for some crazy reason that all 'normal' folks believe.

It's my fictional tragedy scenario.





In the future, let us do the thinking please. :whacker:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSykes
Adventurer
Male


Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 59
Loc: Wisconin, USA Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Icelander]
    #16251873 - 05/18/12 11:01 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Very interesting :o similarly.. I have heard some that they also produce higher levels of natural DMT than most human beings.. And for w/e reason some is released while awake, rather than only to create dreams :o

I don't really know much about it at all.. So don't quote me :p but I've read a few stories about this :o anyone else hear of this?

*side note* I feel kinda sorry for these people.. Must be very frustrating to meet a new person you really like and get along with only to find they don't exist :s (as only one example)
I know a family of schizophrenics.. And it's rather interesting/sad.. But you just chime in on their conversions and don't act surprised and you can learn a lot.. Kinda a good experience IMO :o


--------------------
-Sykes :3


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Sykes]
    #16253056 - 05/19/12 06:56 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quoting - ---The Straight Dope (which is not a credible scientific journal)
Quote:

But get this. Forty-five percent of schizophrenics tested positive in one study for both T. gondii and D-lysergic acid diethylamide, better known as LSD. To quote a recent paper: "These results support the hypothesis that T. gondii may cause schizophrenia and may do so by producing or triggering the production of an hallucinogenic chemical" ("Genes, Germs, and Schizophrenia," Ledgerwood et al, Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, 2003).



are we to believe that "Genes, Germs, and Schizophrenia," Ledgerwood et al, Perspectives in Biology and Medicine, 2003, was a scientific experimental report finding those numbers, or was it possibly the opinion in some review article wherein there were actually no lab results at all (most likely).

Also there is no endogenous DMT in schizophrenics or non-schizophrenics

------------------------HOWEVER MORE INTERESTINGLY----------------------------------

Quoting - ---US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20150873
Quote:

Urine bufotenine levels were significantly higher in ASD subjects (3.30 +/- 0.49 microg/L, p<0.05) and patients with schizophrenia (4.39 +/- 0.43 microg/L, p<0.001) compared with controls (1.53 +/- 0.30 microg/L). Among patients with ASD, there was a significant positive correlation between urine bufotenine and hyperactivity scores on the Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scale (r=0.479, p<0.05). No other associations were detected.




Apparently all of us DO have some bufotenine in our urine, and it measures higher in nutbars.

more about that would be very interesting to read, also why the variance between normal and nutty is so slight (indicative that we are all slightly - well you know - goofy)


----------------------------------------


Quoting - ---Wikepedia  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin
Quote:

Association with schizophrenia and other mental disorders
A study conducted in the late 1960s reported the detection of bufotenin in the urine of schizophrenic subjects;[26] however, subsequent research has failed to confirm these findings.[27][28][29][30]
Studies have detected endogenous bufotenin in urine specimens from individuals with other psychiatric disorders,[31] such as infant autistic patients.[32] Another study indicated that paranoid violent offenders or those who committed violent behaviour towards family members have higher bufotenin levels in their urine than other violent offenders.[33]
A 2010 study utilized a mass spectrometry approach to detect levels of bufotenin in the urine of individuals with severe autism spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia, and asymptomatic subjects. Their results indicate significantly higher levels of bufotenin in the urine of the ASD and schizophrenic groups when compared to asymptomatic individuals.[34]




I read somewhere that it is a metabolite of serotonin...


Edited by redgreenvines (05/19/12 07:03 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16253198 - 05/19/12 08:33 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

No, it isn't a scientific journal, but I do not immediately suspect it is entirely fabricated. If the report is that 45% of schizos tested positive for T. Gondii and LSD, what would it refer to if not lab results? Besides, Icelander says the chance of it is 100%.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16253685 - 05/19/12 12:40 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

well if icelander says so, I rest my case.

note: the format of a claim is often much more specific when it is scientific. i.e. (4.39 +/- 0.43 microg/L, p<0.001) compared with controls (1.53 +/- 0.30 microg/L); and even scientific journals will report bunk if the style of the report is consistent with the genre... future experiments will need to follow to uptake the idea into scientific theory and practice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16253710 - 05/19/12 12:49 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

What would Harpo say?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Icelander]
    #16254142 - 05/19/12 03:32 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

beep beep


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16255146 - 05/19/12 08:35 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

How do you separate the bunk from the non-bunk within a scientific journal then?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16255830 - 05/19/12 11:45 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

this is not a trivial process,
once you have a deep and well rounded appreciation
you can tell when a series of experiments are chasing things that are not going to fit together.
some theories require much more space time or matter than exists to work.
these are usually wrong but they still may be fund-able for a while.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16257179 - 05/20/12 09:41 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
beep beep





Exactly, If you confine your comments thusly I think things will go better for us all. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineFreedom
Will swim for food
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,183
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16262195 - 05/21/12 12:38 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I'm 99.9% sure that this is just simply not true, and that it wouldn't even be speculated about in a peer reviewed journal.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinem.y.c.o
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 7
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Freedom]
    #16262625 - 05/21/12 02:24 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

that makes PERFECT sense. my grandma was schitzo and when i was 14 i "overdosed" from LSD because it triggered the schizoid-ness and i didn't eat or sleep for 7 days straight, was put in a ward for another 7 days then put on anti psychotics. i've been telling people ever since then that it's as if i'm already slightly tripping all the time, or just easily trigger-able. i'm not schitzo but i suspect my genes have little bits of it, epigenetic sort of thing.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16268392 - 05/22/12 05:18 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, here's the deal with this claim, to the best of my ability:  The straight dope article is false/highly misleading.  The "LSD test" was simply one where the analyte was shown to have similar effects on fish chromatophores as LSD- that's it.  It doesn't mean LSD is in the sample or even that the substance is structurally similar to LSD- to the extent I understand the procedure.

--

The article cited by the Straight Dope guy doesn't actually contain any experimental results, its a review which briefly mentions two papers from which the LSD claim is derived.

The actual claim in the review, below, is that "In one set of studies,Toxoplasma-infected schizophrenics tested positive for D-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) using a fish chromato-
phore bioassay"
.

Now, looking at some other papers, it seems a fish chromatophore bioassay is simply exposing a fish (or maybe just the tissue) to an analyte and seeing if it responds similarly to another substance.  Obviously, the mechanism is likely some type of serotonin receptor or similar mechanism agonized by LSD.  So, the positive result to the LSD test only means the tissue acts similarly to both the sample and LSD.

This does not mean LSD is present, it only means something caused the same response, which could be any serotonin agonist et cet.  I think I'll write the Straight Dope people to tell them to correct their article.


Quote:

The effects of T. gondii on behavior might result from production of com-
pounds that affect neurological function. If so, identification and experimental
manipulation of such compounds in humans might provide tests of the hypoth-
esis  that  T. gondii causes  schizophrenia. Several  lines  of  research  indicate  that
T. gondii produces or stimulates the production of substances that trigger symp-
toms of schizophrenia. In one set of studies,Toxoplasma-infected schizophrenics
tested positive for D-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) using a fish chromato-
phore bioassay (Silverman and Varela 1958;Varela,Vázquez, and Torroella 1956).
After showing that the peritoneal fluid of T. gondii infected mice tested positive,
the researchers found that 44.9 percent of schizophrenics tested positive for both
T. gondii and LSD, whereas none of the non-schizophrenic controls tested posi-
tive for LSD. Positivity for T. gondii antibodies occurred in 63.5 percent of the
schizophrenics but in only 29 percent of the controls.These results support the
hypothesis that T. gondii may cause schizophrenia and may do so by producing
or triggering production of an hallucinogenic chemical. Production of such a
compound may have been favored by natural selection because an infected, hal-
lucinating rodent would be more easily captured by a cat.
Although LSD creates hallucinations that are similar to those seen in schizo-
phrenics (Langs and Barr 1968; Rinkel et al. 1952), the LSD production caused
by T. gondii could only partly explain the hallucinations associated with schizo-
phrenia, because hallucinations due to LSD are predominantly visual whereas the
hallucinations associated with schizophrenia are primarily auditory. Neurological
damage caused by T. gondii infection or other chemicals produced in response to
T. gondii infection may work synergistically with LSD or independently of it to
generate the greater tendencies for auditory hallucinations associated with schiz-
ophrenia. Alternatively, the  chemical  causing  a  positive  response  in  the  chro-
matophore assay may be sufficiently different from LSD to cause different kinds
of hallucinations. Such additional effects of T. gondii must be responsible for the
other  alterations  of  rodent  behavior. If  such  compounds  were  also  active  on human neurons, then a collection of schizophrenia symptoms might result from
a set of chemicals and neurological alterations that together generate the set of
manifestations that defines schizophrenia.




The following section mentions some testing that seems to reinforce my interpretation:

Quote:

Studies  indicate  that  T. gondii excretes  several  different  toxins. Recently, a
toxin involved in T. gondii’s penetration of cells was reported (Hoff et al. 2001).
About a half-century ago, a toxin dubbed “toxotoxin” was also isolated from the
peritoneal fluid of T. gondii-infected mice, and research suggested that this toxin
was perhaps a product of the host in response to the infection, because it did not
seem  to  resemble  toxins  produced  by  other  microorganisms  (Weinman  and
Klatchko 1950). A later report by another group indicated that this toxin was
proteinaceous, most likely of low molecular weight, and firmly attached to glob-
ulin carriers (Woodworth and Weinman 1960).
In 1956, Heath and his colleagues reported a substance dubbed “taraxein,” in
the  sera  of  schizophrenics. When  administered  to  normal  volunteers, taraxein
produced temporary psychotic symptoms similar to those seen in schizophren-
ics (Heath et al. 1957).They noted that the effects of taraxein resembled symp-
toms of schizophrenia more closely than the effects of LSD or mescaline.Tara-
xein was later thought to be a globulin, suggesting that schizophrenia might be
an  immune  disorder  (Heath  and  Krupp  1968). The  researchers  proposed  that
taraxein is a psychosis-inducing IgG fraction that leads to an autoimmune attack
on  certain  areas  of  the  brain—specifically  the  forebrain  and  septal  region—
which  then  results  in  the  manifestation  of  the  symptoms  of  schizophrenia
(Heath, Guschwan, and Coffey 1970; Heath et al. 1967). Such a globulin might
be formed in response to an infection.Whether taraxein and toxotoxin are the
same substance has not, to our knowledge, been evaluated. Although these lines
of inquiry are potentially important to understanding the causes and prevention
of schizophrenia, they have been abandoned, apparently without any evidence
that  warrants  their  rejection. With  modern  techniques, the  existence  of  these
compounds  as  well  as  their  putative  association  with  schizophrenia  could  be
evaluated more easily and with greater precision.




Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: johnm214]
    #16268728 - 05/22/12 06:22 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for your research. Even if it isn't LSD, I think it is interesting that there appears to be a specific substance in the brain causing psychotic symptoms. Well it could be more of a cocktail of substances considering the concomitant correlation between bufotenine and schizophrenia.

How did you find those articles?


Edited by Epigallo (05/22/12 06:52 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleHobozen
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16268843 - 05/22/12 06:55 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16268897 - 05/22/12 07:06 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Thanks for your research. Even if it isn't LSD, I think it is interesting that there appears to be a specific substance in the brain causing psychotic symptoms. Well it could be more of a cocktail of substances considering the concomitant correlation between bufotenine and schizophrenia.

How did you find those articles?



wait a minute
the substance may not be causing psychotic symptoms.
the effect of the substance may have a range of physical effects,
and the "psychotic" bouquet my have as much of a causative effect on the concentration of psychotropic compounds (like serotonin) as it could be effected by the increase in local concentration of serotonin like compounds.

i.e.

cause and effect are not established, just a link that could be effective as well as causative.

sorry we are not at all close with this in the context of cause and effect and the context of the term "psychotic".

we could be close if what we are looking for were simplified to what I prefer to call extending resonance, or prolonging the fadeout of signal pulse trains, because that is exactly what happens with extra localized serotonin.

we can shift our interest from classical and inapproriate psychological terms to work with what can be observed in the lab, i.e. re-categorize the effects of longer fadeout by what people report on the various dosage etc.

the term psychotic could probably fall out of use entirely as we get more acclimated to what is actually going on.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineFishOilTheKid
Abducted
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 4,890
Last seen: 4 hours, 50 minutes
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #16269041 - 05/22/12 07:31 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the term psychotic could probably fall out of use entirely as we get more acclimated to what is actually going on.




:thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #16269123 - 05/22/12 07:48 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Well even then - I realize psychosis is a blanket term and not necessarily representative of someone's ability to thrive in whatever their observed state - but I find it somewhat amazing that you can transfer the psychedelic (or psychotic) type quality of mind between people. Although it does kind of make sense. I guess what I did not expect is for the brain to manufacture a drug that increases serotonin instead of it happening more directly...or mysteriously. I'm no neuroscientist though.


If extra serotonin "extends resonance", why do SSRIs tend to dull people rather than bring them to life?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,788
Re: Get Out. Schizophrenics endogenously produce LSD? [Re: Epigallo]
    #16271828 - 05/23/12 08:58 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

While a person is emotional or excited extra Serotonin floods the synapses; then there is depletion and "physical depression" follows.

If this becomes habitual, the chemical pathway gets disrupted, it works best when employed on occasion.  This disruption lowers the middle ground or basal synaptic Serotonin concentration - hence less sympathetic 'excitement' or resonance is possible.

SSRI raises the middle ground or base level by preventing the metabolism that removes accumulated "excess" synaptic Serotonin.

this raises the baseline.

I am not saying it is good or bad, but with cognitive therapy some ssri could serve to help the person relearn ways of being alleviating the bullshit from their personal rollercoaster habit.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The LSD Shortage...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ergot 5,643 65 07/05/04 01:42 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Schizophrenia from a spiritual perspective gettinjiggywithit 2,136 18 01/26/05 07:32 PM
by incubaby_421
* A different look at Schizophrenia
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 3,705 32 02/08/14 05:22 AM
by FishOilTheKid
* Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?!
( 1 2 3 all )
Northernsoul 6,394 47 08/26/09 02:01 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* some thoughts on schizophrenia
( 1 2 all )
wordreality 3,228 20 10/06/03 12:28 PM
by fireworks_god
* Umm schizophrenic forum or what?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Debrerebus 7,815 82 09/19/02 11:33 PM
by Larrythescaryrex
* the prelude to schizophrenia Scarfmeister 872 8 11/27/05 11:25 AM
by fireworks_god
* The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin Twirling 1,389 10 09/30/03 02:31 AM
by Ped

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,243 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2022 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.051 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 18 queries.