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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Duality Inescapable? *DELETED*
    #7955393 - 01/30/08 12:44 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by Chronic7

Reason for deletion: d


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 12:48 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955438 - 01/30/08 12:58 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I feel theres a duality and yet a oneness to life and the universe but the question im asking is do you think whatever you feel, at some point your gonna have to feel the opposite.




It is more than possible, it is impossible not to feel the opposite of everything. But what about all that in between stuff? That's real too. :shrug:
If you are going to think only in opposite, chances are that you'll mostly feel depressed because you'll always have the projection of feeling sad.

Quote:

I have at times both tripping and sober felt compassion and unconditional love for all and everything, but some times i find after i feel the opposite and every human being i come into contact with just plain pisses me off!




So basically you're getting pissed off for being pissed off. :lol:
Well, this kind of stops you from whatever you might naturally doing.
And instead of actually realizing what is it that's bothering you, you occupy your mind with being mad at your feeling.
We always feel in a certain way for a reason, and finding out the reason behind your feelings in essential in fixing and shifting your mood. Otherwise you just end up feeling melancholy for the times in  which you felt good, without seizing the opportunity that the present moment is giving you, an opportunity that might bring joy into your life.
It's not good to think life in black and white because that's all your get since your mind focuses on that.

Hmmm so yeah, that's about it. :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7955496 - 01/30/08 01:11 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

True well put, i think its the culmination of things really combined with drug come downs and withdrawals...Ive got a job i love working with people i love, i just seem to be VERY irritable for the last few days when previous to that i was living in what i feel was great.

Ive also started going out with a girl who im not sure shes right for me so maybe im pulling the old - act pissed off til they dump you routine, because i hate dumping people!

Im going to meditate on purely finding balance within my life, i like feeling emotions strongly, its just when the negative ones come it hurts after feeling so high....

Its like the dilema of if you could be like a baby which is usually very happy or crying its eyes out, or be like an adult where you seem to hover inbetween, id take being the very happy/crying baby anyday!


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955545 - 01/30/08 01:21 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

"When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of likeness; then you will enter [the kingdom]." -Jesus, "The Gospel of Thomas", The Nag Hammadi Library

I think this quote is a good illustration of the Buddhist 'Middle Path'. I know what you mean about the swinging between opposites: one can be feeling endless love and acceptance in a higher state of consciousness, and then a few hours later one is struggling to accept other beings (and oneself) and feeling contempt or impatience. Those awesome glimpses of Christ-like Compassion that we get on psychedelics are like booster shots for consciousness, but we have to cultivate equanimity and loving presence in the mundane tasks of everyday life...to "make the outside like the inside". As the Buddhist supplication to the Takpo Kagyu goes: "May I rest in great impartiality, free from attachment and aversion to those near and far."


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Edited by Lion (01/30/08 01:28 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955575 - 01/30/08 01:27 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Can anyone help me with this?


what you are feeling is perfectly natural and will likely continue for the rest of your time in this lovely, horrifying existence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Lion]
    #7955578 - 01/30/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
"When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of likeness; then you will enter [the kingdom]." -Jesus, "The Gospel of Thomas", The Nag Hammadi Library


Even though im not all for all of christianitys beleifs, mainly the fact that this one life determines whether we spend eternity in heaven or hell, im all for its fundamental values and that just answered my question perfectly.

Thankyou


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 01:31 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955586 - 01/30/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I think that it i also possible that you might be over reacting in both ways.
You give too much meaning to both feeling good and feeling bad. Case in which maybe you need to analyze how much of it is the actual feeling, and how much is your own attachment to it.
Of course we all want to feel good, and prefer it over feeling sad, but if you already don't feel at your best, the last thing you wanna do is to exaggerate or feel embarrassed about your current situation. You might feel unworthy or not good/smart enough for not being able to provide with a better mood for yourself.
And then you wait for your mood to change, which already implies a projection in the future and lack of focus on who you are right now. Just take each day at a time, try to find joy in everything that you're doing and look for activities which make you feel good.
Fresh air, music, eating healthy, exercising, simply being and breathing are thing which have an incredible power of influence on how you feel.

Quote:

Its like the dilema of if you could be like a baby which is usually very happy or crying its eyes out, or be like an adult where you seem to hover inbetween, id take being the very happy/crying baby anyday!




I wouldn't go for that option.
I'm interested what are the reasons which made you be inclined for that option.
In my opinion, it also come from seeing the world in black and white. Apathy serves it's purpose too. So does everything else. Rejecting all that in between is denying a good part of the experience of being alive and leaves you with an incomplete picture, therefore with confusions and insecurities.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7955600 - 01/30/08 01:33 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I think that it i also possible that you might be over reacting in both ways.
You give too much meaning to both feeling good and feeling bad. Case in which maybe you need to analyze how much of it is the actual feeling, and how much is your own attachment to it.
Of course we all want to feel good, and prefer it over feeling sad, but if you already don't feel at your best, the last thing you wanna do is to exaggerate or feel embarrassed about your current situation. You might feel unworthy or not good/smart enough for not being able to provide with a better mood for yourself.
And then you wait for your mood to change, which already implies a projection in the future and lack of focus on who you are right now. Just take each day at a time, try to find joy in everything that you're doing and look for activities which make you feel good.
Fresh air, music, eating healthy, exercising, simply being and breathing are thing which have an incredible power of influence on how you feel.

Quote:

Its like the dilema of if you could be like a baby which is usually very happy or crying its eyes out, or be like an adult where you seem to hover inbetween, id take being the very happy/crying baby anyday!




I wouldn't go for that option.
I'm interested what are the reasons which made you be inclined for that option.
In my opinion, it also come from seeing the world in black and white. Apathy serves it's purpose too. So does everything else. Rejecting all that in between is denying a good part of the experience of being alive and leaves you with an incomplete picture, therefore with confusions and insecurities.




Id make that choice because as humans we feel emotion, and id rather feel strong emotion then none at all?

Emotions not based in attachment that is, unless they are all bound to atatchment?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955656 - 01/30/08 01:44 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Emotions not based in attachment that is, unless they are all bound to atatchment?




I think you already feel some sort of attachment toward (strong) emotions, since you consider such a choice.
Also you are starting from the false premise that every adult lives a... boring and useless life. Perhaps because you had some not so good experiences with adults in your life? But that doesn't mean that there's a rule that states that every adult is plain. It simply isn't true. :shrug:
Adult means a lot of things. Don't judge it by what modern society offers in bulk and think of it's deeper meaning. It means learning, growing and making some sense of what's happening to you. It means mental maturity and understanding, it means patience, not rushing into judging something by it's appearance.
Also, look for the same thing in the meaning of a baby, not for the fluffy and dreamy image given by modern society. A baby really doesn't know anything, it goes on instinct and he's mostly (if not totally) unable to rationalize. What makes him happy are basic things, or even things that should trigger a worry in the moment we filter them through reason and see them for what they are.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7955727 - 01/30/08 01:56 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Emotions not based in attachment that is, unless they are all bound to atatchment?




I think you already feel some sort of attachment toward (strong) emotions, since you consider such a choice.
Also you are starting from the false premise that every adult lives a... boring and useless life. Perhaps because you had some not so good experiences with adults in your life? But that doesn't mean that there's a rule that states that every adult is plain. It simply isn't true. :shrug:
Adult means a lot of things. Don't judge it by what modern society offers in bulk and think of it's deeper meaning. It means learning, growing and making some sense of what's happening to you. It means mental maturity and understanding, it means patience, not rushing into judging something by it's appearance.
Also, look for the same thing in the meaning of a baby, not for the fluffy and dreamy image given by modern society. A baby really doesn't know anything, it goes on instinct and he's mostly (if not totally) unable to rationalize. What makes him happy are basic things, or even things that should trigger a worry in the moment we filter them through reason and see them for what they are.




Hold on dude i wasnt thinking that deeply about it, i was just comparing the two because on the WHOLE babies are 2 extremes and adults aren't, i was using it as a metaphor i suppose not a serious debate about which to choose or stating that all adults are boring, im not that ignorant!

I think emotion is a good thing, feeling nothing and being a human sucks, i truly have felt absolutely nothing on a mega dose of shrooms and i couldnt handle it, i fell into a bad trip a few minutes later, it didnt scare me or feel bad, it just felt like NOTHING, i could feel no emotion whatsoever.

I also agree with the buddhist middle path and not feeling extremes, being centred and being ONE isntead of a wild uncontrollable 2 sides.
I need to stay reminded of this philosophy.

Being that ONE can lead to Nirvana as it isnt attached to anything because it is everything....but then can Nirvana be "the ultimate happyness" as the buddha described because the word happy describes an emotion?

And surely if your ego is lost, all emotion is non existent?


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 02:05 PM)


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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955820 - 01/30/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

Your self contains all opposites. You can choose to identify your self with either of the perspectives in every moment. It is not unhealthy to identify yourself with both. love exists, hate exists, you should understand that you contain both, it is you who label them good or bad respectively. It is not realistic to only feel love. If you choose to identify yourself with only love, then you will also feel its opposite unconditionally. Even love is not acceptance. Often if conditions were different, your degree of love would be different. You should focus on acceptance. Accept things as the are, as they come. Even your self. If you feel love, then feel love, in all its varying degrees. If you feel hate, then feel hate, in all its varying degrees. But you choose to identify your self with one or the other. Even those who were said to practice un-conditional love (Jesus, Ghandi, Maharshi etcetera) in fact practiced un-conditional acceptance. Even Jesus felt anger.
Meditation can help you remove the obstacles to true happiness. But if that is your focus, you will always combat this duality. In fact, you will always achieve your focus with meditation, that is the point, your focus will always be your result. What is your focus? Understand that by bringing about any state, will also bring about its opposite. Duality is what is. As you say, it is inescapable. So just accept it.
I have heard it said that " Only silence can remove all doubt"
Hope that helped


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955841 - 01/30/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

I think that i need to focus on non-attachment which will then lead to the one and only true love of everything.

I think everytime ive felt enlightened thus far has still been ego based and not truly free of attachment.

Feeling liek your enlightened seems lead to an attachment to keeping that light or a feeling of superiority, which just isnt right as we are all equal.

I will concentrate on being free of attachment!

Thanks for the replies im starting to remember, i just felt severly lost for a while. Ive spiritually grown so much so fast its like i was losing direction on where to go next so was questioning where id been.

Thanks again..


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Duality Inescapable? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7955872 - 01/30/08 02:32 PM (16 years, 20 days ago)

So far the best suggestions for dealing with the ups and downs of duality have been ...

Be ONE, that way theres is no extremes, just the original ONEness from which we came.

Let go of ALL attachment.

Accpet everything as it is.

John Lennon really did speak words of wisdom "Let it be..."


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