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OfflineSneezingPenis
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non-duality
    #7448279 - 09/24/07 04:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This recently caught my eye..... and I was hoping for some elaboration from some of the other regulars here since this concept seems to permeate almost every eastern belief system.

Glossing over wiki and a few other sources, it seems that there are about 20 different interpretations of what nondualism is, or atleast what the implications are.
One I dont like, or agree with is the "we are all one" type of stuff...

but here was a line that I really liked and it piqued my interest.
Quote:

To the Nondualist, reality is ultimately neither physical nor mental. Instead, it is an ineffable state or realization




this is how I have felt as long as I can recall, especially after reading Castaneda's nagual explanations.

here is another line following that above that I agree with yet disagree with at the same time... Im not sure if it is my knee-jerk reaction towards "oneness" that is holding me back from delving deeper into this.... but here.

Quote:

It should be pointed out that technically, there can be no such thing as a nondual perspective or theory or experience, only a realization of Oneness or nonduality. One cannot accurately claim to experience nonduality, because the concept of experience depends on the subject-object distinction, which is a duality. The subject experiences an object, which is something separate from the subject. This is incompatible with a truly nondual realization. Thus, technically, there cannot truly be an accurate verbal account of this union, only words that insufficiently point to the realization.




So, the main point of this thread is to open discussion on this topic, not really my aversion to "oneness"... so try.

but also, if anyone can reccommend any books that deal with this sector of nonduality, that would be great.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: non-duality [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7448402 - 09/24/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Duality is a product of evolving through a physical world. Physical life is a process of controlling what goes in and out of the body. I remember reading about a petri dish study where cells would migrate towards or away from the introduction of a substance, depending on whether it was beneficial or toxic. Duality on a basic level. Not, of itself, a bad thing.

Oneness is the notion that though we all have different experiences and different bodies, we share the same intelligence that gave rise to all life, a form of mind that's ultimately more powerful than ego mind, or individuality.

It's what makes some people feel bad about eating animals and stepping on ants:grin:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: non-duality [Re: Rahz]
    #7448482 - 09/24/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

well, jains kind of disgust me in a way..... I guess I was just more intrigued by the first quote than anything.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: non-duality [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7448511 - 09/24/07 05:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

It's the synchronization, as everything exists of more or less somethings and nothings.
Out of this dualism there resolves the trinity as unification of both, as one again.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: non-duality [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7451640 - 09/25/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The Tao that you can talk about ain't the Ultimate Tao.

this is how I have felt as long as I can recall, especially after reading Castaneda's nagual explanations.:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: non-duality [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7451819 - 09/25/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

you will understand and maybe even accept 'oneness' once you partake


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: non-duality [Re: demiu5]
    #7452361 - 09/25/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

funny that there should be a distinction (dualism) between the experiencing of non-duality and the realization of non-duality.

anyway, it is my considered opinion that, while it is more easily glimpsed in certain states of mind, the experiencing of it is not subject to states of mind, nor is the realization of it a state of mind. (states being somewhat fixed, and the dance of the non-dual universe is very much in motion not going anywhere.)

realizing non-duality or experiencing it is related to experiencing no-separation, and it is quite a bit of an active and ongoing appreciation vs. a static apprehension.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: non-duality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7452665 - 09/25/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I believe in duality.

And I don't.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: non-duality [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7452733 - 09/25/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Everybody NOW!!:idea:


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: non-duality [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7455292 - 09/26/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well what is dualism? It is division, separation. Ultimately, that manifests as a distinction between subject and object. I'm here, and reality is there. Or maybe there is some relationship. But there is a distinction between the objective world and the subjective one, and these lines and boundaries are what we usually identify with. If you no longer identify with these superimposed boundaries, then what is there?

No subject, no object. No self, no other. There is just reality, just this, without any boundaries or limits. It is, in a sense, infinity. But it's not like you can become nondual or anything like that, it is just the way the universe or reality is. So the closest thing you could say would be to realize nonduality, or to discover it. But as others pointed out, YOU can't realize nonduality. But yet, you will never realize it if you don't do something. You won't realize nonduality by saying "fuck it" and going and sitting down in front of the TV with a nice cold beer.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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