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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Escaping and/or Transcending Duality..........
    #7442662 - 09/23/07 02:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Can it really ever be done....?
Is it just too clever for us....?
Or are we too clever for ourselves....?




>^;;^<


P.S. Someone else made the pic, I just found it while surfin....


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7442716 - 09/23/07 02:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What kind of duality?  You mean gender?

Well... unless you mean eunuchs, I guess.  Or maybe trannies, as they can switch back and forth at their leisure. :shocked:

Who knows, but this is a really serious question. :lol:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7442812 - 09/23/07 03:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Do you mean escaping infinity? Is there any thing else possible than infinity... I made a thread about this recently and the general response was: you can't escape infinity because it covers everything, that's the point of infinity.

I don't know... it's like... even if there was a way to deny or transcend ultimate reality... the place you would end up would then become part of ultimate reality. There has to be something which language can't come close to pointing to.


--------------------


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7442972 - 09/23/07 05:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"If the string is too tight it will snap, if it is too slack it will not play."


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7442973 - 09/23/07 05:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I believe that one's ATTACHMENT to duality is transcended every time you let your mind quiet and find your way back to the roots of consciousness within yourself, which is a single-pointed state of being.

Duality is a product of the mind. Reality is a product of the mind. Our acknowledgement of what we deem dualistic arises as a result of our analyzation of that reality. We make the choice to move from a single-point to a dual-pointed system simply by pulling information into a logical form that we think we can "know."

Either way it's all in your head... it's just a matter of whether we want to think in a single-pointed way (experiencing god, oneness, unification) or a multi-pointed way. (Experiencing duality and further evolutions upon duality which exist in higher dimensional thinking.)

http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php <--This does a good job of illustrating the concepts of higher dimensional thinking. Keep in mind that this is a handbook for understanding how reality works as a construct of the mind, not as an external objective reality.

Now if you mean PERMANENTLY transcending the attachment to duality, I don't know. We constantly shift in and out of it, in my opinion. Some do it with awareness of the process, while others do it without being aware of it.

--

If I had to fathom a guess, I would GUESS that attachment to duality is not permanently transcended until the physical plane is left behind.

Duality is the separation of one into two, which is what allows all structure to hold form instead of collapsing in on itself. To permanently transcend duality would be to leave the physical plane, as far as I can tell.

(imo)



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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7442979 - 09/23/07 05:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

From what I've heard Duality continues beyond the Physical onto the Astral and it is not until the Causal plane that Duality is permanently transcended, I guess.

I think the most persistent duality is the Observer and the Observed and the most beneficial perspective is not of one or neither, but of BOTH.

It's like walking a tightrope, imo...


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Middleman]
    #7442987 - 09/23/07 05:52 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well I wouldn't know one way or another about that. Like I said, if I had to fathom a GUESS, I would guess that duality is transcended upon leaving the physical plane.

However, I would consider the idea that dreamstates seem to offer a form of physicality, which may allude to your point. :smile:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7442990 - 09/23/07 05:54 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, I'm just guessing too. I dig how you qualify your views with IMOs. :thumbup:

So few people around here do that, they just state their views like it's the end-all Truth. :thumbdown:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Middleman]
    #7442993 - 09/23/07 05:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Hey, I'm just guessing too. I dig how you qualify your views with IMOs. :thumbup:

So few people around here do that, they just state their views like it's the end-all Truth. :thumbdown:




Yeah... I've learned to do that so that the skeptics don't assume I'm stating fact and jump down my throat by... er... stating factually how wrong I am. :wink:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7442995 - 09/23/07 05:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

hehe, as far as I see, duality is a byproduct of existence itself. If there's existence, there's nonexistence too, automatically.
At least, that's where I see the roots of duality.

Existence and nonexistence are strongly contextual.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7442997 - 09/23/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Good point. I was shrooming once and heard a song lyric that said "non-existence does not exist" it sounds like gibberish, I know, but at the time I understood it completely and it was very profound...


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Middleman]
    #7443012 - 09/23/07 06:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, and transcendence in some context means our ability to take a look into the realms of the nonexistence.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Middleman]
    #7443031 - 09/23/07 06:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Good point. I was shrooming once and heard a song lyric that said "non-existence does not exist" it sounds like gibberish, I know, but at the time I understood it completely and it was very profound...




I think this is hinting at the idea that the existence/non-existence duality is a fallacy. Perhaps the absence of something is not the opposite of it, because it's not anything at all. It has no inherent definition whatsoever, so how can it be part of a duality?

Uhoh, I smell a paradox a'brewin'... :laugh:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443039 - 09/23/07 06:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The absence of 'something' is 'its' definition - and therefore a duality :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7443051 - 09/23/07 06:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
The absence of 'something' is 'its' definition - and therefore a duality :wink:




How can something be defined by the absence of another label?

To me, that's like saying my name is Mark because my name isn't Bob. To me, that's not true. (Because my name isn't Mark.)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443059 - 09/23/07 06:51 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In a dried out river bed, there is no river. It's the absence of the river.
There is nothing in the river bed (except hot air),  but primarily it's the lack of the water which defines the context of non-existence there.

edit:I mean, we often only recognize the non-existence in the lack in and of it's context. And you are right, of course there could flow a river of Fanta too, not water :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (09/23/07 07:07 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7443373 - 09/23/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Can it really ever be done....?
Is it just too clever for us....?
Or are we too clever for ourselves....?




>^;;^<


P.S. Someone else made the pic, I just found it while surfin....




No

Yes

What?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Icelander]
    #7443781 - 09/23/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

DailyDouble... What is sex, Alex?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #7443831 - 09/23/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Duality is a product of the mind. Reality is a product of the mind. Our acknowledgement of what we deem dualistic arises as a result of our analyzation of that reality. We make the choice to move from a single-point to a dual-pointed system simply by pulling information into a logical form that we think we can "know."




Is reality really a product of the mind, or visa~versa~....?
This very much reminds me of something that I never understood from science class as a young lad....
The tree falls in the woods, no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound....
The rules of science say that there must be a receiver for the sound, for there to be a sound....

I always thought that if the sound waves were produced, then the waves of sound exist and travel outwards, whether there is a direct receiver or not....    :shrug:
The hell I say....!?    :lol:



Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php  <--This does a good job of illustrating the concepts of higher dimensional thinking.
Keep in mind that this is a handbook for understanding how reality works as a construct of the mind, not as an external objective reality.




Aahhh yes, I just posted this link in the 4th-5th Dimension thread last week in the other form - (this forum's duality mate!)...  :tongue:
Reality is stuck between two points - according to the video, and what they say that "we" understand up to this point....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Icelander]
    #7443838 - 09/23/07 11:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What?




Are we too clever for ourselves - did we create the concept of duality so that we couldn't ever escape from it....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7443902 - 09/23/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I believe that the perception of a duality of existence and non-existence is what gives birth to speculation... or perhaps the other way around. :grin:

What's here is real, and what's real is here, regardless of any kind of supposed duality or thought to the contrary.  It's all spoken into being by the creator, from my viewpoint.  Therefore there needs be no duality, because everything has its own special essence.

Even if there's an alternate reality where this conversation doesn't exist, the two don't necessarily have any inherent relation to each other.  This world exists on its own IM(H)O. :wink:

:bananahorsey:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7443906 - 09/23/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe 'escaping' duality is about realizing it's a lie. :smirk: Body/Mind split? Come on. I think this split comes around when people become alienated from themselves and the world around them. I prefer to concieve of matter and spirit as one vast continuum. Our very cells are no more, no less 'holy' than our abstract thought.


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7443919 - 09/23/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Precisely. All is holy, all is divine. I bow before the tiniest atom as before the great body of energy and light who is our creator, who is in and through everything.

Spirit is matter, and matter is spiritual.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7443959 - 09/23/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stellar renegade said:
What's here is real, and what's real is here, regardless of any kind of supposed duality or thought to the contrary.  It's all spoken into being by the creator, from my viewpoint. 




Particle - Wave
Mental - Physical
Male - Female


The examples are seemingly here, and both seemingly real (and both not necessarily opposites)....
Both within each relationship dependent upon each other for their very existence....
If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....

Was it created that way, or did we create the concepts that way - as to not be able to escape them....?
Somewhat of a pickled paradox....    :tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7443989 - 09/23/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know anything about particles or waves, but I do know that there are more than 2 genders. Many cultures recognize a third or a fourth, and many people in our own culture identify as something other than thier genitalia would suggest. There are also people born with ambiguous genders... so really, the male/female duality isn't a duality. It's just a popular concept. There are many ways to concieve of gender.

The Mental/Physical split is also just conceptual and not really 'true' in any absolute way. Where do you draw the line? The mind (which either is the brain, or is located in the brain,) spends a great deal of it's energy regulating matters relevant to the functioning of the body - this is a physical process. Abstract thought may appear to transcend this process, but does it really? Many physical factors affect how one feels, and what one thinks about. When I don't eat enough I go crazy and get anxious, exhausted and defensive. I'm more likely to think the worst of people and get really self righteous. Conversely, eating a healthy, filling meal makes me feel strong and grounded and 'on.' Something as simple as a good meal opens up a great deal of potential in the functioning of my mind. You cannot separate mind and body, they are a part of each other, one and the same.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7444008 - 09/23/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....




Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
You cannot separate mind and body, they are a part of each other, one and the same.




Exactly....!

When I eat a good meal, I get sleepy.....    :yawn:  :tongue2:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7444032 - 09/23/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....




And with the gender stuff you have mentioned, that is all fine and well....
But without the functioning apparatus of the male and female "dualism" (sperm and egg),
the cyclic system of reproduction will not continue in the "natural" aspect....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7444056 - 09/23/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes but this is not a prove of duality.
It's only a prove on something not functioning in the known conditions.
If it were to be a prove for duality, then water, seed and soil could be a prove for triality... :shrug:
And so on...


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7444080 - 09/23/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You don't need no dirty soil to germinate a seed....    :tongue:

Say hello to Hydroponics....!    :woot:  :woot:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7444084 - 09/23/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well you can say the same thing about cloning :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7444106 - 09/23/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

HHhmmmm, maybe cloning ***could*** become a way to escape the "normal cyclic system of reproduction".....
But, with plants (and if I remember correctly), there are only so many generations of clones you can make before the genetics become unviable....
Thus collapsing the system....  :shrug:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7444134 - 09/23/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Not really cause we could start experimenting with mixing human genetics with other animals and then the possibles would be endless :satansmoking:
And like I said before, this is not a sign that duality is real, it only means that what we call duality gives results in certain aspects of our lives.
Duality has it's role in making us able to make some calculations and appreciations, but so does unity, trinity and on and on...
Considering duality as the things on which the world revolves around does not represent reality in my opinion.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7444178 - 09/23/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
And like I said before, this is not a sign that duality is real, it only means that what we call duality gives results in certain aspects of our lives.
Duality has it's role in making us able to make some calculations and appreciations, but so does unity, trinity and on and on...
Considering duality as the things on which the world revolves around does not represent reality in my opinion.



Agreed. :jointsmile:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflineBoundless
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7444372 - 09/23/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Duality is a split mind. When a person says there is no duality and all matter is spirtual, they are seeing the world through the bodies eyes. They do not take into account the fact that the world is a product OF the mind. Everything that is seen has first been thunk in the mind, conscious or not.

To see the world through the bodies eyes leads one to accepting evil and good equally in the world, because it has all came from the same material, the spirtual matter which they propose.

But this is false! Like a halluincation when seen is believed to be real, only to be realized that it had no effect on reality, so is all evil action a facade, conjured up by a confused and chaotic mind.

The question is not, "Does duality exist in the world". Rather the question is "Does duality exist in the mind!?" And although our perfect selves see it not, we are living in a dual mind that mixes grievances with love, hate with joy, and outcomes this mish mash of a world we see, where babies are born in joyous mothers arms, and in the same world babies are dying everyday of starvation, people, inoccent people, are being destroyed by weapons that this sick diverted mind has created.

We do, as Humans have the power to create with our mind. We cannot lose this gift. It is our birthright and with this gift comes freewill, and with it we choose either to create or miscreate. And every moment, of everyday we choose between the two.

When one chooses NOT to miscreate, they have a perfect mind, whole and completely free. To choose this always, is to be beyond duality.


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Boundless]
    #7444457 - 09/23/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yes but you are forgetting that evil is subject to good, or else it cannot really be called evil.

Only something good can be corrupted. There is no such thing as pure corruption.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Boundless]
    #7444502 - 09/23/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No we do no not create with our mind.
What can be said is that we imagine with our mind and then we start working on making it happen (with our hands, by making calculations, and using the necessary tools to turn it from idea of concrete.
Also, can you define evil and good for me?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7444602 - 09/23/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Bingo. IMO.
But it does exist, no?? +/-, off/on, 1/0 seems to be a viable method of data transfer among modern information systems. Gets things spinning.

I feel that to escape you have to put both stones in place in your foundation somewhere so that your steeple is not leaning blindly on only half of the stumbling blocks available for stacking.
Thing was built.
Can be taken apart.
Somehow you know this, no??


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7444753 - 09/23/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

But how could 'both' factors (if there are even only two) be consistent with one another or even be able to interact if they are not originally from the same source?

Duality is forced, IMO.  It forces things into categories.  Life is pure and simple, no need to make it contrived.
:rockon::bananahorsey::gethigh:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


Edited by stellar renegade (09/23/07 04:53 PM)


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7444784 - 09/23/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed.:shrug:

I sense that there has been a huge disconnect...
Excuse me operator...??
Operator...??
Hello??
...??


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7444796 - 09/23/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Wha? I thought the whole topic was about dualities and if they're able to be transcended.  You seemed to say they're necessary and inherent to things, and I said that they're not inherent and everything is much simpler than that.

How do we simply 'agree' when the two statements are saying different things? :confused:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7444819 - 09/23/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"But how could 'both' factors (if there are even only two) be consistent with one another or even be able to interact if they are not originally from the same source?"

This statement lead me to believe that you acknowledge the division of the ONE into 'parts'.
Going from this I agree that they originate from a single source.


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7444833 - 09/23/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"You seemed to say they're necessary and inherent to things, and I said that they're not inherent and everything is much simpler than that."

I say that to enter into the head space that would be called knowing, as in understanding the (your) truth, you would have to walk through gates not walk out, ya know??


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7444861 - 09/23/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
I say that to enter into the head space that would be called knowing, as in understanding the (your) truth, you would have to walk through gates not walk out, ya know??



Well yes, but this does not even necessarily imply a duality, just distinction. Duality implies two equal entities counteracting/complementing each other, does it not? But this doesn't approach a greater/less than relationship, or the existence of more than two entities in a relationship, or two entities not in a counteracting/complementary relationship at all.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7445407 - 09/23/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

"Are we too clever for ourselves - did we create the concept of duality so that we couldn't ever escape from it....?"

I should have put this in my original post.
This is why I said bingo.
I feel that a lot of the stories are written from a dual perspective.
Hero/villain, good/evil
If into mythology you understand that these stories are important.
I feel that it all exists.
Both what people call good, and what they refer to as evil. But, as ONE.
The stories fed to us all force us to choose sides from an early age.
This fragments the ONE, IMO.
"...so that we can't escape..."

Something about NOT eating the fruit from the tree in the garden.
Something about the opportunity to NOW be as of the gods, knowing the difference...

I feel this rather dominant model is applicable.
I feel the forces are at play but they are well blended by now, and possibly on the rocks.


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7446334 - 09/24/07 12:16 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I feel that my mind is spinning.:stars:

:tongue:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7446913 - 09/24/07 08:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Join the club.:lol:
:puke:


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