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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7443902 - 09/23/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I believe that the perception of a duality of existence and non-existence is what gives birth to speculation... or perhaps the other way around. 
What's here is real, and what's real is here, regardless of any kind of supposed duality or thought to the contrary. It's all spoken into being by the creator, from my viewpoint. Therefore there needs be no duality, because everything has its own special essence.
Even if there's an alternate reality where this conversation doesn't exist, the two don't necessarily have any inherent relation to each other. This world exists on its own IM(H)O. 
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7443906 - 09/23/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe 'escaping' duality is about realizing it's a lie. Body/Mind split? Come on. I think this split comes around when people become alienated from themselves and the world around them. I prefer to concieve of matter and spirit as one vast continuum. Our very cells are no more, no less 'holy' than our abstract thought.
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7443919 - 09/23/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Precisely. All is holy, all is divine. I bow before the tiniest atom as before the great body of energy and light who is our creator, who is in and through everything.
Spirit is matter, and matter is spiritual.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
#7443959 - 09/23/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
stellar renegade said: What's here is real, and what's real is here, regardless of any kind of supposed duality or thought to the contrary. It's all spoken into being by the creator, from my viewpoint.
Particle - Wave Mental - Physical Male - Female
The examples are seemingly here, and both seemingly real (and both not necessarily opposites).... Both within each relationship dependent upon each other for their very existence.... If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....
Was it created that way, or did we create the concepts that way - as to not be able to escape them....? Somewhat of a pickled paradox.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7443989 - 09/23/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know anything about particles or waves, but I do know that there are more than 2 genders. Many cultures recognize a third or a fourth, and many people in our own culture identify as something other than thier genitalia would suggest. There are also people born with ambiguous genders... so really, the male/female duality isn't a duality. It's just a popular concept. There are many ways to concieve of gender.
The Mental/Physical split is also just conceptual and not really 'true' in any absolute way. Where do you draw the line? The mind (which either is the brain, or is located in the brain,) spends a great deal of it's energy regulating matters relevant to the functioning of the body - this is a physical process. Abstract thought may appear to transcend this process, but does it really? Many physical factors affect how one feels, and what one thinks about. When I don't eat enough I go crazy and get anxious, exhausted and defensive. I'm more likely to think the worst of people and get really self righteous. Conversely, eating a healthy, filling meal makes me feel strong and grounded and 'on.' Something as simple as a good meal opens up a great deal of potential in the functioning of my mind. You cannot separate mind and body, they are a part of each other, one and the same.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7444008 - 09/23/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said: If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....
Quote:
NiamhNyx said: You cannot separate mind and body, they are a part of each other, one and the same.
Exactly....!
When I eat a good meal, I get sleepy..... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7444032 - 09/23/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said: If you take one away from the duality expressions, it will collapse the "system"....
And with the gender stuff you have mentioned, that is all fine and well.... But without the functioning apparatus of the male and female "dualism" (sperm and egg), the cyclic system of reproduction will not continue in the "natural" aspect....
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7444056 - 09/23/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes but this is not a prove of duality. It's only a prove on something not functioning in the known conditions. If it were to be a prove for duality, then water, seed and soil could be a prove for triality...  And so on...
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7444080 - 09/23/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't need no dirty soil to germinate a seed.... 
Say hello to Hydroponics....! 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7444084 - 09/23/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well you can say the same thing about cloning
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7444106 - 09/23/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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HHhmmmm, maybe cloning ***could*** become a way to escape the "normal cyclic system of reproduction"..... But, with plants (and if I remember correctly), there are only so many generations of clones you can make before the genetics become unviable.... Thus collapsing the system.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7444134 - 09/23/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not really cause we could start experimenting with mixing human genetics with other animals and then the possibles would be endless  And like I said before, this is not a sign that duality is real, it only means that what we call duality gives results in certain aspects of our lives. Duality has it's role in making us able to make some calculations and appreciations, but so does unity, trinity and on and on... Considering duality as the things on which the world revolves around does not represent reality in my opinion.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7444178 - 09/23/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: And like I said before, this is not a sign that duality is real, it only means that what we call duality gives results in certain aspects of our lives. Duality has it's role in making us able to make some calculations and appreciations, but so does unity, trinity and on and on... Considering duality as the things on which the world revolves around does not represent reality in my opinion.
Agreed.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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Boundless
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/06
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
#7444372 - 09/23/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Duality is a split mind. When a person says there is no duality and all matter is spirtual, they are seeing the world through the bodies eyes. They do not take into account the fact that the world is a product OF the mind. Everything that is seen has first been thunk in the mind, conscious or not.
To see the world through the bodies eyes leads one to accepting evil and good equally in the world, because it has all came from the same material, the spirtual matter which they propose.
But this is false! Like a halluincation when seen is believed to be real, only to be realized that it had no effect on reality, so is all evil action a facade, conjured up by a confused and chaotic mind.
The question is not, "Does duality exist in the world". Rather the question is "Does duality exist in the mind!?" And although our perfect selves see it not, we are living in a dual mind that mixes grievances with love, hate with joy, and outcomes this mish mash of a world we see, where babies are born in joyous mothers arms, and in the same world babies are dying everyday of starvation, people, inoccent people, are being destroyed by weapons that this sick diverted mind has created.
We do, as Humans have the power to create with our mind. We cannot lose this gift. It is our birthright and with this gift comes freewill, and with it we choose either to create or miscreate. And every moment, of everyday we choose between the two.
When one chooses NOT to miscreate, they have a perfect mind, whole and completely free. To choose this always, is to be beyond duality.
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Boundless]
#7444457 - 09/23/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes but you are forgetting that evil is subject to good, or else it cannot really be called evil.
Only something good can be corrupted. There is no such thing as pure corruption.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: Boundless]
#7444502 - 09/23/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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No we do no not create with our mind. What can be said is that we imagine with our mind and then we start working on making it happen (with our hands, by making calculations, and using the necessary tools to turn it from idea of concrete. Also, can you define evil and good for me?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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backfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7444602 - 09/23/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bingo. IMO. But it does exist, no?? +/-, off/on, 1/0 seems to be a viable method of data transfer among modern information systems. Gets things spinning.
 I feel that to escape you have to put both stones in place in your foundation somewhere so that your steeple is not leaning blindly on only half of the stumbling blocks available for stacking. Thing was built. Can be taken apart. Somehow you know this, no??
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
#7444753 - 09/23/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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But how could 'both' factors (if there are even only two) be consistent with one another or even be able to interact if they are not originally from the same source?
Duality is forced, IMO. It forces things into categories. Life is pure and simple, no need to make it contrived.
 
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
Edited by stellar renegade (09/23/07 04:53 PM)
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backfromthedead
Activated


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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: stellar renegade]
#7444784 - 09/23/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agreed.
I sense that there has been a huge disconnect... Excuse me operator...?? Operator...?? Hello?? ...??
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Escaping and/or Transcending Duality.......... [Re: backfromthedead]
#7444796 - 09/23/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wha? I thought the whole topic was about dualities and if they're able to be transcended. You seemed to say they're necessary and inherent to things, and I said that they're not inherent and everything is much simpler than that.
How do we simply 'agree' when the two statements are saying different things?
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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