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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it!
    #7494178 -

Incas anyone is unfamiliar with the "Trip Levels", here is an example listed below. This chart to me isn't useful in the slightest (okay, maybe the slightest) and it does nothing for me to know what someone felt about communicating the experience:


Level 1
This level produces a mild "stoning" effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colours, etc). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound "wider".

Level 2
Bright colors, and visuals (i.e. things start to move and breathe), some 2 dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to continual distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in creativity becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed.

Level 3
Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or "mother of pearl" surfaces. Closed eye hallucinations become 3 dimensional. There is some confusion of the senses (i.e. seeing sounds as colors, etcetera). Time distortions and "moments of eternity".

Level 4
Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. (Things start talking to you, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously). Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and e.s.p. type phenomena. Blending of the senses.

Level 5
Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measurable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist! Satori enlightenment (and other such labels).
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At first, the chart might have sufficed. It was when I first started Tripping and did not pay attention to how my mind was being affected, and the mental effects it gave me. Now, this chart actually sets me backwards, when being able to understand psychedelics.Reasons include: My trips have become more specific in my mental control, I am able to describe aspects of my subjective experience better, there are also so many options available to you mind, this chart is like buying a Video Game System and never buying a game beyond the pack in one!

Do to a nature of control with psychedelics that is possible,and because of the control that I have gained, every and any dose in relation to that chart has all the effects listed. All of the effects and affections in a smaller dosed trip also reside in a big dose trip, and vice versa. Granted, this would have not been possible unless I payed attention when attention was due; There is still a need and purpose to high dosing, however all doses I have taken past a certain point had all of these effect, so I knew this Reference Table was bunk for me. I've had all these effects happen on 1 gram of shrooms, and 2-3 hits (kinda weak) LSD. Attention was and is key.

Trips are a lot like a separate, fully functional mind, but intrinsically linked to memory and other areas of interest of the mind. Memories are holographic, and therefore I came to the realization the psychedelic mind is also. The more trips under your belt, allows you more reference points to "guide" your trip, or write your own curriculum if you will. I don't ask for visuals, I let them come, however If I wanted to, I can recall any visual on just about any dose in the psychedelic mind state, merely because I can always reference it to other trips. This is also true in sobriety for me, although it is usually for different motivations, and intents, and usually not the same intensity as if I were actually on something.

In some ways, the chart is also a form of laziness. I don't want to hear someone say there trip was "level 5" If it is even similar to the effects described in detail, I want to hear the detail. The Details of details. Once you talk about your trip at length, it devalues the Trip Level Chart. Ego loss becomes four paragraphs, and you attach way more meaning, details, articulation, inner and outer axioms...all of a sudden we are learning. I learned not to refer to this by tripping.

A goal I propose, and one you could say I am working on in a roundabout way is to completely invalidate the chart. Create a brand new chart, if it were the case that someone wanted to use one. Work out Trip Levels from 1-100, all equal to each other; Hell, even make Trip Levels A-Z to battle 1-100. All my trips are equal in quality, however contain so many properties, qualities, and unknowns, that I never could think of myself saying: "I had a...umm...hmm...lemme see...Level 3 trip?"


I don't HATE the chart, but I can no longer support it, simply because it can't support me anymore. The greatest use I see for it, is to graduate beyond the easy to reference "articulations" held within, and become a walking chart yourself. Reinvention of the psychedelic experience is what lies ahead.


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"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7494195 -

Interesting...


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Wilderness. It defines me.

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7494201 -

The chart never really had any meaning for me. It works well as an incredibly vague guide line, but since the potential of psychedelic experience is almost limitless, a simple five level chart can never map out all the places you can get to.

Also, the chart works largely with respect to dose, whereas other factors can make an experience more spiritual and life changing than can possibly be explained, even though the direct effects of the drug are only taking place at a low level. For example, one can experience absolutely earth shattering, mind blowing spiritual revelations while only getting mild visuals. The chart isn't all that great, really.

I've never once applied the levelling system to a trip I've had. Transformative mystical experiences cannot be charted out scientifically.


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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7494254 -

I don't use the chart. My trips can never really be pegged down as being in one "level." I don't think it's a better way of describing the trip than just outright saying what you felt.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7494256 -

i like it man

good post :thumbup:





:bouncysmoke:


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What Would Dexter Do?

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7494329 -

well in the world psychedelics, you have to be vague to make a chart like that work.

It lets you say how intense your trip was, without actually explaining the specifics, which can takes hours, to days, and sometimes much longer. There will never be a chart that maps out everything, so i think this is as good as it gets really.

I dont like the chart too much, but its the best way to say, these mushrooms are really intense, or this acid is pretty weak.

Its more of an intense-o-meter than an actual trip-o-meter.


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Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7494397 -

I get really irritated when someone says ".... I want a level 4 trip, how much should I take?" or "I'm gonna have a level 3 trip tonight" as if it was just something you dialed in and there you go.

For me they never made any sense because a trip would have aspects of all them or if I tried to explain it using the chart it wouldn't make any sense.


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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: learningtofly]
    #7494618 -

you should try my chart it consists of:

1. Okay
2. Trippin Balls
3. Oh Shit!

The Oh Shit! level is mind blowing.


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-::- Moonglue's Mushroom Tea -::-Moonglue's Cannabis Chocolate Peanutbutter Toasties-::-

Quitting Weed FAQ

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: moon_glue]
    #7494841 -

mine is similar to yours

1. "..well that was pointless, did I do it right?"
2. "Duuuuuude"
3. :eek:


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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: learningtofly]
    #7494953 -

yeah trip levels are ridiculous.
good you have realised this.
people, mushrooms, and experience are all individualy unique


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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7494998 -

I like moon glue's post
1. Okay
2. Trippin Balls
3. Oh Shit!

otherwise i found the S_A_L_V_I_A
levels meaningful
1- [S] subtle
2- [A] altered
3- [L] light visual
4- [V] visionary
5- [I} immaterial
6- [A] amnesiac

many have observed the frame stacking effect in which slower fading signals from all senses including memory (thought) compound and stack up or layer.

with the salvia scale I have been able to examine how much compounding is going on (i.e. how many frames are overlaid, how many partial images lay over other partial images...)

I do not remember level 6 which is amnesiac
but I do remember cycling into it and out of it between levels 4,5,6 visionary immaterial and amnesiac. so it is realistic to have levels of stonedness cycling, i guess as more and less psychedelic influence is chemically introduced, natural absorption & processing etc.

at level 5 I have noted up to 50 layers of things which was lucky and which related to seeing an edge being traced against a background. Often at level 5 I am aware of other beings in the room, this is consistent with personality masks being about 15 thoughtful mind moments before cascading into another personality context, so if you have more than 45 layers of mind moments, the the entirety of 3 personality masks is in suspension in the tripper's mind.

at level 4 I have noted up to 20 layers of things and also I have seen singular motifs repeated multiply even infinitely which could just be 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2 to the power of 2...
level 4, visionary, could easily have one more personality in the experience, or a kaleidoscopic array of another personality...

at level 3 I have noted up to 8 layers, by counting edges of trails and beign attentive to the low level eye candy.

at level 2 I have noticed up to 4 layers and at layer 1 mere shadowing of the moment has been noted, for minor enrichment.


many of the terms of the basic description of levels are too fixed on visual or auditory effects or subjective terms, rather than a consistent mental effect.

what is noticeable is that, however variable it is, the real effect underlying "stoned-ness" is an all round extended fadeout of sensory signals, and the resulting collection of resonance and layering as the persistent signals merge with new input.

anyway I don't blame people for wanting a visionary level experience without too much of the immaterial. More intensity than that is never really enjoyable for me.
if you can let go immaterial is great.
going as far as you can usually means skirting the amnesia thing otherwise, well you come back with nothing anyway.

what's weird is to speculate what it is like to go past your limits.
ging past level 5 is amnesia but something is happenning. we do get curious.

luckily with salvia and LSD you can go there without any physical risk.
still it is preferable not to go for the ultimate limit when level 4- visionary is so rich.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7581494 -

The trip level chart is pointless...the psychedelic experience is way too variable for any kind of generalizations. IMO the chart is used mearly as a means to brag about how far you have gone...which doesnt make any difference too me its all about what you got out of the experience, not what others think about it.

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Phish20]
    #7581521 -

yeah i dont think the chart works well either because I have had what they would call a level 4 trip, and it ended up being a freak out like one of those major trainwrecks... of course it was a solo so no one could talk me out of my insanity, but objects were changing in to other objects but i still have never had my senses confused like they say can happen at level 3...so i dunno i dont like the chart either


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"It's a joke. Greed and the desire to take drugs are two separate things. If you want to separate the two, the thing you do is make drugs legal. Accept the reality that people do want to change their consciousness, and make an effort to make safer, healthier drugs."

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: apfrommsp]
    #7581683 -

Nice post :smile:


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Jesus loves you.

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: andrewss]
    #7581726 -

I think that chart was coined by Alexander Shuldgin to rate the experiences of new compounds to compare them to others. I just think certian people have adopted it to explain them selves better about something that is so hard to explain in the first place. For me the only thing the levels of anything has applied to was the different doses and effects of DXM (which I explored personaly when I was a youngan. Otherwise there are way to many variables of an experience to be able to define it that easily.
I even go as far as not even trying to put it into words to people how might happen to be around, for it only seems to diminish the whole experience.
More Power To You!


--------------------
Praise Bob!

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: 2end4]
    #7581742 -

Exactly. It's just there to quantify the relative power of new compounds in terms compatible with LSD and mushrooms and mescaline...

Using it to describe a trip on one of those well-known psychedelics is just laziness...


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: 2end4]
    #7581769 -

shulgin certainly created a very similar chart for his tikhal/pikhal, but even he accompanied any ratings with further descriptions.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/shulgin_rating_scale.shtml

plus, dxm is very a dosage-specific drug with a range of vastly different (and pretty reliably reached) plateaus, so it makes sense that a chart would work for that.

i've never paid great heed to such things...IMO either you take too little, just right, or too much to gain a valuable experience (that is, mind-expanding, enjoyable, introspective)


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http://www.last.fm/music/The+Wolf

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Re: I can/will no longer reference the Trip Level Chart...and I like it! [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7581859 -

The guide is supposed to give general descriptions. It is not a mathematical proof.

It is supposed to give people with no frame of reference a general idea of tripping. It isn't "You are either tripping, or you are not." While real tripping is an infinite spectrum, this just clumps it to different levels. It is helpful. The guide even says that the levels overlap, and different parts can be interwoven and interrelated.

But you'd have to say there's definitely subtle trips (level 1), and involved trips (level 3) and somewhat overwhelming trips (level 4).

I'd agree that everyone claims to have level 5 trips, which by definition is unlikely.

And it may be hard to differentiate between level 2 (2-D visuals) and level 3 (3-D visuals), but if you are that focused on the level, you miss the whole point entirely.


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Another Dimension
---------------------------
"Come, and trip it as ye go,
On the light fantastick toe."

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